Need people's views on what just happened in my home

[Spiderwoman123]

6 year old ASD son. He is currently in process of EHCP application. He struggles socially, has no friends, has weird things about food

H has always said im too soft. Letting him have pudding when hes only eaten cucumber. That kind of thing. H gets v frustrated at DS not eating as H is the house chef really. H always been pretty resistant to adapting parenting but accepts diagnosis and is kind and loving but can also be v inflexible and quick to anger.H much prefers younger DS (none of same challenges). H can get pretty grumpy

Right. So dinner time. DS refusing to eat chicken as he says different to normal stuff. H getting wound up. Me trying to reduce tension. DS says "stop looking at me" as H staring at him. H looks mad. DS getting mad too. Tension rising and both sniping at each other. DS goes to slap H. Its pretty half hearted. DS used to hit a lot when meltdown and we have worked on it a lot together but it still happens. DS barely touches H. H says this is because he moved out the way.

H in response raises his hand to hit DS. I think. Stops himself and then picks up DS chair off the ground and tips it over so that DS falls onto hard kitchen floor. Not from some great height but he definitely picked up the chair and tipped it fully so DS (who was curled up on chair crying) onto floor. Pur kitchen has a fake concrete floor thing

DS bawling. H saying he didn't mean to but he wanted DS to leave room. H saying im overreacting and started blaming me for my shitty parenting!

Currently putting two v upset boys to bed. I think it's fucking horrendous. H thinks DS went to hit him and H was just getting him to leave the room

Pls tell me what to do

He's an abusive dickhead OP. He violently abused his own child and he's now boasting about how much better behaved DS1 is with him, as though he is father of the fucking year.

He delights in insulting you and tearing you down. Being a total cunt obviously does wonders for his own esteem. He's utterly unbearable and I'm sure he must make your skin crawl.

I think that the kids fawn over him because they are so grateful when he is being nice to them. But he's not consistent and he's got an agenda.

That’s not what the husband says happens. He is actively saying his son is calm in his presence & plays up when the mom turns up. It is then reasonable if he’s telling the truth that the mom isn’t the calming influence. The son knows his boundaries when around dad on his own, which is probably why he is calmer. He knows where he stands as every study in this area will suggest with regards to boundaries and behaviour. Mom turns up & now child can play them against each other. He may not have wanted the nuggets but he wanted the pudding. One parent won’t give it the other will. He knows mom just gives it him regardless of what dad says (which actually goes against the very comment of his way or no way), the dad over reacts & steps way out of line. But because he did wrong doesn’t mean the events leading up to it means he was in the wrong to be fustrated. I pointed out that she was undermined the husband on this. He had already expressed the no to pudding on numerous occasions. To go against it doesn’t just undermines his authority but makes him the bad guy in the eyes of his son. A united front would have seen a more cohesive way to get the son to follow rules. It’s not an unfair rule & it’s not a cruel rule but quite a simple one to enforce & could lead to encouraging the child to eat & an excuse to lavish some ott praise. Something the lad could of been genuinely proud to achieve. Instead the stance of it’s only a pudding means you missed the point & are unable to see it from a different perspective. Showing a complete lack of respect for your partners feelings. She also went on to say the H has no interest in mediation & seeing anyone else’s view then later admitting they did therapy & also recently he’s willing to go to school meetings. I don’t know this family & I could be completely wrong, but I saw the contradictions in her events. He’s this & that & wont listen etc therapy was a sessions about how I’m in wrong etc. well of course it will be, he’s telling his point of view & you have to say yours when it’s your turn to speak. It’s not meant to be done politely it’s meant to be done in a calm safe environment. You can’t hold it against him if he’s partaking & telling you what’s wrong.

Just for clarity @NoisyViewer he went to therapy with me after a nasty incident where he was v v angry with me & i had to cancel my birthday because he refused to come out of our bedroom so I pretended to be ill to our friends. I said I wanted it to be over shortly after that.. And he finally agree to go to therapy (after years of asking)

. I agree though I have a lot to learn with my parenting. I have done the course/read the books but the Senco is saying to me "pick your battles" but the 2 of us now aren't aligned. I honestly don't even know who has got it right. Maybe he's better at this than me. I am trying to compromise and im not actively disagreeing with H. Any characterisation that im saying "dont worry about dad, do what you want kid" is v far from the truth.

I think the largest obstacle is that DH and I camt communicate healthily ourselves so our parenting is not perfect but we seem unable to improve it together.

and I really do think that is a huge issue. Your DS has become a battle in your relationship and that is an awful place for him to be because it means you are constantly questioning your parenting so aren’t following your instincts and judgments and your DH has become so entrenched in being right that he can’t see anything beyond that.

look at the initial argument that you posted all he cared about was whether he was right or wrong in the context of your relationship that his son was merely an inconvenience to it all.

Your toxic relationship is incredibly unhealthy and I don’t think can be fixed

H has been pushed to the limit

I think you’ve been very fair in taking responsibility for where weaknesses may lie with you. You seem to appreciate the behaviour your DS shows to you & I also think this incident has been a catalyst to get this sorted. I think you’re a good mom. Soft but a good mom where your loyalty lies with your son as it should. You’ve taken a bashing both of the likes of me & my opinion & those that can’t believe you’ve not LTB (I’m using the mumsnet abbreviation). You’ve trying your best to be considered despite being immensely & rightly furious. I also don’t blame you (even though it may look like I have) you’re a mom, I’m a mom & I’ve done the same. I have older children & I’ve learnt that picking your battles are a must regardless of your child’s need. However, I’ve also learnt that the small battles are the easiest one & the most effective. Having small rules that have black & white consequences make the bigger things easier. If I was at a restaurant & my child refused to eat, I’d probably concede on the dessert. I’d see the meal as a treat & because I’d want to repeat it id want my child to see it that way to. That would be me picking my battles.

as for your personal relationship with your H, I don’t condone he talks to you they way he does. It’s out of order. I’ve only kept my opinions to the issue at that time. Your children shouldn’t be seeing their dad disrespecting you, that in itself is causing problems.

I find it very difficult to empathise with DH. He has been bullying OP and their child, scapegoating the older child and setting up a situation where everyone lives in fear in case they do something that's against the rules.

so? That is never an excuse for what he did to his child or what he says to his wife

I have been pushed to the limit parenting DS and j have never crossed the lines he has ever

I think your husband is being desperately unkind, and his unchecked anger and behaviour is abusive. Instead of facing this it seems like you’re blaming and questioning yourself. The more you reveal the more it’s clear that he’s abusing you.

I also begged my exH have some counselling/therapy for his anger and lashing out (verbal and physical). He did go, but unbeknownst to me spent that time talking exclusively about how I wasn’t nice enough to him and then proceeded to pursue another woman.

I could be wrong but from what you’re describing your husband is being cruel, kicking you when you’re down and assassinating your parenting, which I think is remarkably thoughtful and fair despite adverse circumstances. I was constantly criticised by various people for my different and collaborative approach to parenting-my son is unrecognisable from the child he was when exH was living with us and creating problems. DS is now nothing like his father, and your son cannot blossom in my opinion in an unhappy environment where he sees his mother being disrespected and unvalued. Please stop questioning yourself and protect your son-you cannot do this with your H in the house behaving as he is. Your H isn’t listening and doesn’t care about taking accountability or supporting you or your son. I’m so sorry, it’s a horrible situation for you

Oh please. My DS used to batter me, lashing out on a daily basis, for years when he was little. I was covered in bruises, and had no support. Never once did I choose to retaliate with violence or physically lose it like OP’s husband with the chair. I cannot understand making excuses for a man in his 40’s who’s incensed about a chicken nugget.Yes children test our patience in unthinkable ways but it’s on us to model behaviour we want to see, not flip out and lose it because of some power dynamic over food. Terrifying and hurting your children then justifying it after having time to reflect is abhorrent.

You leave the fucker

You and yoir children are in an abusive home, terrorised by a hughly abusive man.

Please tell the truth and ask for help to leave.
You deserve so much better than this.

Hi OP. You said you see the similarities between your husband and son; are there also similarities in the way you let them treat you? It sounds like you’ve put up with a lot from your DH over the years (been too soft on him, made excuses for him, always seen the positives as outweighing the negatives) which is ironic as I assume this how your DH perceives you treat your DS…and wants you to get tougher. Do you need to be tougher? With both of them? DH definitely sounds ND - perhaps you use the same strategies on your son and DH unconsciously?

He’s so nasty to you :( and he probably’behaves’ because he’s scared.
You are the good parent here.

This reads very victim blamey to me. OP has challenged and communicated with her H for years, trying to facilitate a more collaborative approach to parenting. H isn’t interested in engaging and feels any learning is beneath him because he’s already the expert. This isn’t about OP being too soft with him, or her DS. His behaviour is the problem-something he won’t accept or shine a light on, unlike OP who’s constantly tying herself in knots and doubting and questioning herself. Parenting children with challenging behaviour many people believe should be about having extremely firm boundaries, but there’s plenty of evidence emerging that points to this being counterproductive. Be that as it may, OP’s son is in a frightening, toxic, stressful, anxious, unhappy environment-I would say arguably it’s helpful and right for them that OP is providing patience, tolerance, collaboration, compassion and flexibility to a child going through a lot already. Undoubtedly her DS is doing the very
best he can and as well as he can, as a little emerging person-sadly his father doesn’t even seem to be trying, indeed he is justifying his lack of control and behaviour-holding his son to a much higher standard than himself

@Spiderwoman123 I haven’t rtft but it’s quite possible that dc’s behave perfectly when with H on their own because they manage their behaviour and could be scared of him. In ND terms that’s masking. Like the autistic kids who are perfectly behaved at school but completely go to pieces/lash out when they get home (where they feel safe).

neurodiverse children need support to live in a neurotypical world. Make the world easier by feeding dc things he likes & is comfortable with because that’s going to make his life easier for him and he’s more likely to manage with the demands he’ll be placed under every single day - even with adjustments at school everything will just be harder for him.

the most ridiculous and presumable frustrating part of all of this is H won’t accept your advice on an approach but you have 2.5 years’ evidence that it’s working

OP, I think you would be better emotionally if you only had one ‘angry and unkind’ male to deal with. You might not get it all right with the one you ‘keep’ but at least you would only have the emotional drag of one.

I wish you all the best OP. I just wanted to say a couple of things.

First, your marriage is dead in the water. I think you should accept that you cannot change this man and you cannot live with him as he is. Figure out what you need to do next to secure your future without him.

Second, be prepared tomorrow for your husband to play and say a very different story to the scene that went down in your house. I suspect he will want to talk about your different parenting styles, describe his one on one outing with ds, how you make the kids emotional etc. His primary focus in this meeting will likely be to make sure people think it was your fault.

I urge you to remember why you are in the meeting and keep repeating it. "Well I referred us to the school because you were violent toward ds" or "well I was emotional because you had thrown your son on the floor from a height" or "yes both boys were crying as was I - because you threw ds to the ground in front of us"

You may be right @Pallisers about my marriage. The only thing I have to work out, and what seems unfixable, is how to keep my DS1 safe.

Would you leave a volatile man to have time alone with DS1 when you've witnessed that rage or when you've seen clear preferential treatment and refusal to adapt to ASD?

Money, house, being alone - all totally doable

DS1 safety though. Whatever i look like at it it feels like a risk that cannot be taken. H is nowhere near a safeguarding risk from a court perspective. But I feel sometiems like I dont know my H at all. You'd think he was such a normal bloke but he can really can be cruel and nasty sometimes. And unpredictable.

How do you leave? Knowing I made myself happier but I risk my kids safety? I dont know if I can do that

I do think you have taken the first step though in telling people from a safe guarding perspective. You cannot sugarcoat this. As others have said, the reason DS may behave better with H is simply through fear. Your OP shows that he has terrorised the child.
In terms of how you protect DS, I had to go to court. It cost me a year’s salary and a lot of stress but contact both my DC and my ex could manage and grow into (and they did do that) was worth it. I think you need to take advice from women’s aid or similar groups who have much experience dealing with these types of situations. At least think about it.

Call womens aid or social services, take 1 on 1 with a staff member at the school you trust. Tell them what you are dealing with in terms of dh. Tell them your fears for separating and go from there. Leaving him will be the best thing you can do for yourself and your dc. He will most likely play disney dad and be nice to Ds.during visitation and if it starts getting difficult he will stop collecting them. If this doesn't happen when your DC get to the correct age they can make the decision not to go. Take as much professional advice as you can get about protecting tour DS when separated.

My DS was similar with me and he is neurodivergent and when alone with his Dad he was like a different boy the majority of the time. Then he would come home to me and break down because I was and still am his safe space. My DH worked long hours and I was a SAHM for the early years. When I went back to work and my Husbands work pattern changed dh also became a safe space as he was around more for my ds to allow in.

No parent is perfect and we all do things in ways not everyone agrees with but if you do your best and try to learn new things to.support your DC that is all you.can do. I would rather be to soft than shout and scream at my DC. I would rather get something wrong but not hurt my DC.

The senco is right about picking your battles, let the small stuff go if we corrected everything our DC did "wrong" everyone's lives would be miserable. With SEN children sometimes you have to pick the path of least resistance. I was adamantly against letting my DC sleep in my bed. My DS was and still is an awful sleeper, he just wanted me. The child psychotherapist one day told me.just to let him into my bed if it means both of us get some rest. So I did and it worked, my DS is now 14 and sleeps I his own bed.

But the risk is there even if you stay - more so because your relationship with your DS suffers because you can’t be the parent you want either and it is risking that side

staying or going are both risks at least by going you can create one happy environment for him

What do you mean? Surely leaving is helping your kids safety?

Thank you for saying this @NoisyViewer 🙏

@Spiderwoman123 The more you say and reveal about your relationship, the more toxic it sounds.

I understand the desire to protect your children especially DC1. However, H is abusing them in front of you. Staying isn't protecting them. While you can see what is going on and there are benifits to that he is also having unlimited access to them. Leaving will limit their exposure to him.

Make sure you have all the behaviour documented for the child arrangement order and when Cascaf gets involved.

I think that you are being very hard on yourself. You are working, doing all the courses, doing most of the parenting and household stuff. Then your walking on eggshells because H is difficult and critical. Then on top of that you've got DC1 and his dysregulstion. It's a lot. It's also easy for others including H to criticise. He isn't doing the work or carrying the load. You are.

I also want to touch on this. I've married an unkind & angry man, and we have produced an unkind and angry son.

Your son is nerodivese and has his challenges but he is a child. He has time to grow, learn and find ways to self regulate. He's also witnessing his dad's behaviour and learning what is an isn't acceptable. I think it's hard to separate what is learnt behaviour, what is his personality and what is the autism ( I have the same issue trying to figure this with my girls). The thing is you H hadn't got any excuses. He's an adult. He knows how to behave. He's abusing you and his kids because he can. He isn't behaving like this at work of with other people. He also has the capacity to make changes and engage with therapy. It seems to me that he only wants to change when not changing will impact him. Those changes won't be sustained because they are made under duress. He's promising change because he doesnt want his life not to change not because he's devastated by his behaviour and how it impacts the people he purports to loves.

I'm sorry @Spiderwoman123 no want wants to see an marriage end but in this case I think it's best for your wellbeing and the wellbeing if your children.