Need people's views on what just happened in my home

[Spiderwoman123]

6 year old ASD son. He is currently in process of EHCP application. He struggles socially, has no friends, has weird things about food

H has always said im too soft. Letting him have pudding when hes only eaten cucumber. That kind of thing. H gets v frustrated at DS not eating as H is the house chef really. H always been pretty resistant to adapting parenting but accepts diagnosis and is kind and loving but can also be v inflexible and quick to anger.H much prefers younger DS (none of same challenges). H can get pretty grumpy

Right. So dinner time. DS refusing to eat chicken as he says different to normal stuff. H getting wound up. Me trying to reduce tension. DS says "stop looking at me" as H staring at him. H looks mad. DS getting mad too. Tension rising and both sniping at each other. DS goes to slap H. Its pretty half hearted. DS used to hit a lot when meltdown and we have worked on it a lot together but it still happens. DS barely touches H. H says this is because he moved out the way.

H in response raises his hand to hit DS. I think. Stops himself and then picks up DS chair off the ground and tips it over so that DS falls onto hard kitchen floor. Not from some great height but he definitely picked up the chair and tipped it fully so DS (who was curled up on chair crying) onto floor. Pur kitchen has a fake concrete floor thing

DS bawling. H saying he didn't mean to but he wanted DS to leave room. H saying im overreacting and started blaming me for my shitty parenting!

Currently putting two v upset boys to bed. I think it's fucking horrendous. H thinks DS went to hit him and H was just getting him to leave the room

Pls tell me what to do

Genuine question: doesn't the idea of "masking" show agency/choice/control on the child's part? Is it possible that the child does behave better with the more no-nonsense parent and that the husband has a point? (I am not for a moment condoning tipping the child out of his chair, BTW, more that on a continuum of boundaries it might be in everyone's interests if there was more of a shift to stricter boundaries than the OP's).

I would suggest reading up on the damage masking can do to a ND persons mental health.

Just because they can, doesn’t mean that they should.

DH is definitely more no nonsense and I do feel all the challenging behaviour is saved up for me. It feels pretty daunting doing it alone

@AliceAbsolum no. Never. He seems fine and then boom. You'd never know if you met him. Quiet, shy, polite. I don't know how im so dim. It always surprises me when he goes off...like where did they come from...

How often roughly does he go off on one?

I'm not sure how it actually works. But i understand children can be more or less ok at school for example and then explode when they're at home and safe.
Not exactly controlling it but suppressing it which can't be good for them.

Really silly thing when he said I was vein and I said that made me feel about bit shit and he shouted at me in the car "get over yourself. For fuck sake. Just get over yourself you ridiculous fucking woman" etc.

I am so sorry. That is absolutely unacceptable. First he insulted you, then when you mildly and reasonably protested he shouted at you and swore at you and insulted you some more.

This is not a struggling father who was temporarily pushed beyond reason by a child he can't manage. This is a bully.

So your children are learning to love and fear a bully. They are learning how men treat the women in their lives. They are not learning to treat women reasonably and kindly and respectfully. They are learning that men bully the most important women and children in their lives. You need to teach them that loving women don't hang around to accept such treatment. For everyone's sake - yours and your children's - you need an exit strategy.

Yes he is masking with his father and then the OP gets it - yes it is either a conscious or unconscious effort and it is about fitting in and meeting social expectations. To some extent I think the vast majority of us do it

What comes across is that the OP is also the person her DH feels he can stop masking with and that can’t be with the kind of outbursts he is showing either

Also by forcing the child into masking he is forcing out the behaviour - it is like a pressure cooker than builds up and he is forcing it out all at once rather than letting it out slowly

so for example with DS we just leave him alone for up to an hour when he gets home from school - he has a spot in the conservatory a seat set up and he has some sensory stuff to help he has food and he watches stuff on his iPad. That is his time to decompress after school just to recover from it before he is ready to interact with us again. Sometimes it’s 30 minutes sometimes he spends 2 hours and we leave him alone.

by forcing him into the stricter behaviours at home he makes it much much worse because he won’t let him be

get over yourself. For fuck sake. Just get over yourself you ridiculous fucking woman" etc

This really isn’t a normal way for a husband to talk to his wife. It’s abuse.

Your son was on his best behaviour, masking all day, he knows what happens when he's not on his nest behaviour with his dad. His dad reacts aggressively. My kids are on their best behaviour at school, with my parents and generally out and about. The meltdowns happen at home with me because I'm their safe space. Him being on his best behaviour with H is a reflection of his fear and not of Hs excellence parenting abilities.

Have you considered what you want to do moving forward? He promised change. It doesn't sound like his managed to maintain it even for a few days. Did he go to the GP? Did he arrange therapy / anger management? Has he done any research on parenting or Autism courses? Unfortunately, @Spiderwoman123 I don't think you are going to see the sustained change that you want / need to continue this relationship. I think you need to put a mental deadline in place. I need to see xyz by this date or I'm done and stick to it. Also, ge has no right to belittle you, talk down to you, or abuse you. You are not his emotional punch bag. It's hard to leave but sometimes you need to do the hard thing.

Got another meeting with school tomorrow which we are both going to. He took DS1 out for the day yesterday and they had a lovely day. H also boasts hoe well behaved DS1 is with him. They went to a big city which I wouldn't with DS at this time of year but apparently hes "perfect" when im not there

OMG This is so blatantly manipulative. Why can’t you see it?

Words absolutely fail me.

I don't know why he says things like that. I say to him that when you talk about the fact that my mere presence is the issue it's pretty upsetting - and he just says "i'm not saying things to upset you. i'm telling you because it's the truth. you need to step up your parenting". At night - he refuses to do final bedtimes until I "am stricter with them". THe problem is a large part of me think he's right - i do really struggle to manage them and DS1 can be relentless in his demands of me.

Oh he sounds awful, more like your sargeant major or headmaster than your partner.

Dreadful man. He says you need to step up being a parent but he needs to step up being a decent human being.

And pp are correct, your son fears him, he’s not behaving better because he’s happy, poor kid is probably terrified.

Parenting ASD kids is hard. Plenty of the "rules" that one might apply to NT kids just don't work for those who are ND. Eating is often a battleground and ND kids will only eat their safe foods, which gets worse when they are stressed and anxious. As your son grows older he may be able to better vocalise his issues with food but "those nuggets look odd" sounds like a totally normal ASD issue to me. My DD14 can now tell me if she can cope with trying new things tonight or if it is a bolognese only night but would still be very put off if a traditionally safe item looked odd. I want her to be fed so I have back-ups and will revert to those if she can't eat what is given because the other alternative is that she eats nothing and is hungry. This is one of those times that maybe for other people it is a case of WON'T eat that but for her it is CAN'T and reframing things to CANT's in my head helps me to be tolerant. Your husband needs to learn this if dinner is not to be a continual horrific battleground in your household. Perhaps you can make food for your ND son according to his needs so your H doesn't feel his cooking is being criticised? Although I agree with you that you shoudn't have to, your H should learn that this is nothing to do with his cooking and all about your son's disability.

This is not you, you may not always get it right (sho does!) but you are trying, you are learning, you are adapting and you are understanding. The problem is your husband is not. Unless your H gets his head around his own need to adapt and change to try and adapt to your inflexible child then this will only get worse. If your H is also inflexible due to ND or other issues then this may not work out at all. Perhaps you should give some time and space to considering what separation might look like? I left my H who we can now clearly see is ND over his anger towards our ND daughter. Seems I too am ASD but am able to flex to meet my DD. Her dad saw her for a while but has now really gone very low contact and still can't connect with her. They are one as bad as another really and it's a bit sad but divorce was still absolutely best for DD who no longer has to live in that volatile atmosphere.

Seems like everyone is expecting @Spiderwoman123 to take all the responsibility for bringing up her children and managing her unmanageable husband. It takes a lot of courage to admit that this is going on. I don't think it's helpful for people to say you've got to leave the bastard or reinforce the message that everything that's going wrong is all her fault.

When you are in an abusive relationship it is very very difficult to escape from it. There are also financial reasons why women can't leave. In this case it seems like OP is working full time and DH isn't, and that complicates things because when you're working, you don't have the time or the space to be able to plan your escape. DH is at home most of the time I suppose. So he's always there watching and looking for any signs of resistance.

OP needs support and proper advice. Meanwhile, she is doing the absolute best she can.

Exactly, a child who is able to control his behaviour means there is scope for agency of his choices. Thinking a child who can regulate his emotions is somehow a bad thing & that hitting out. & shouting at others is deemed healthy expression is something that will never seem backwards

"i'm not saying things to upset you. i'm telling you because it's the truth.

So in his mind: "what I feel right now" = "the truth". Uh-huh.

I don't know why he says things like that.

Oh dear, I suspect that I do. You married into (a particular version of ) autism and unfortunately your husband's version of autism espeicially his extreme lack of empathy (which not all people with autism have and is I suspect more common in men) has made a real bully of him. He can mask and mask and mask out there in the Big World until he's safe at home with you, and then if anything or anyone annoys him then you get it with both barrels.

His pronouncements push your inner uncertainties and you start thinking he may be right. It's partly because he doesn't validate your point of view at all and he dismisses your feelings. And it's partly just voice tone. People like that can sound like the Voice of God when they're just talking shite.

Somewhere on the Relationships board there's a long-running support thread for women in your situation.

DS1 can be relentless in his demands of me.

And so is DH.

Well, you can manage DS1. Or you can manage DH. But I can't see how you'll manage living with both of them for much longer. Not if you want to keep some sanity.

How do you think it’s not good for them? If you’re a volatile person people avoid you, kids won’t want to pair up with them, won’t want to sit next to them & other parents become hyper vigilant & sensitive when a child consistently lashes out, becoming even more annoyed than they would if a child who’s usually good acts out. That child loses all sympathy from others because no one is more unreasonable than a parent whose kid is constantly put out by another through bad behaviour. I’ve had 2 kids end up in the worse class of each year group, where a child who didn’t regulate their emotions kept disrupting the class. The parents of brainier kids livid with the lack of education & everyone else who’s child comes out having being bitten, stabbed with a pencil, had a chair thrown at them, kicked & hit. I had the mom of one of these kids cry as she accepted a party invite from my son because no one ever invited him. The other parents even grumbling that I’d invited him & one parent declining an invite because I did.

She’s admitted it’s the truth. That DS1 is more demanding of her as she’s softer. She doesn’t have to be as strict as DH, I’d suggest she isn’t because ying & yang work best, but to stop caving in so easily to his demands when as horrible as you’re being is a denial of dessert is a good starting point.

No idea why people are still discussing pudding on a thread about an adult man physically abusing a child and verbally abusing his wife.

The truth probably is that neither are handling it correctly and need a far more united balance third approach one that isn’t strict and harsh but balanced and fair. One that isn’t caving and giving in but consistent and boundaries.

the real issue though is how he treats the OP

@Spiderwoman123 Reading your situation reminds me so much of what I went through with my exH. It was so hard for me to accept that our marriage was a sham-he didn’t respect me, that I had wasted years of my life begging, pleading, hoping, asking in every conceivable way for him to learn about our son’s diagnosis (PDA) and parent in ways that wouldn’t make things harder for me or DS. My exH put his need to be right and in charge (based on nothing but his uneducated belief that he knew best), above his vulnerable child’s wellbeing. He seemed to actually enjoy belittling me and criticising me whilst actively making it even harder for me to help my son. He and others told me I was too soft. I didn’t even recognise that I was compensating for the toxic situation that I was in. A situation that I didn’t recognise for what it was because I was so utterly exhausted and ground down by the life I was being subjected to. I had normalised my exH’s awful behaviour. I have another child with significant physical disabilities which also meant I was being stretched to the limit, with no outside support or help of any kind. I didn’t think I could cope alone because I had no idea how much harder and more stressful exH was making life, in a cruel heartless way to try and crush my voice and make me accept what I knew was wrong.
As soon as I asked exH to leave after an incident similar to yours, as I couldn’t risk something like that happening again, life became so much easier. DS calmed almost instantly, his lashing out stopped and it was possible to have a healthy dynamic at home because everyone felt safe respected listened to and valued.
I wish I had left sooner. I will always carry the guilt that I kept trying to fix the unfixable, rather than accepting that exH, despite being given every opportunity, couldn’t or wouldn’t recognise that his behaviour was damaging and abusive.

I hope you find the strength and courage to move forward in ways that mean you and your children are treated with respect, compassion, understanding, love
and support by those around you

He knew that directly hitting the child made his intentions obvious.. but lifting up a chair with a curled up crying child and tipping them onto a hard kitchen floor was clearly intended to physically hurt them.

He's also trying to pin the blame on you. You comforted them.. and he argues this is what made the cry.

He is a nasty abusive bully.

Don't make excuses for him to your child. When your child asked you is this what some daddies are like ie... he's asking you should I just accept this, is this normal..

It may sound soothing to say ... he didn't mean to hurt you... but the truth is, he did and both you and your son know it.

Im sorry you are both going through this.

"H says he doesn't need a course or book to tell him how to parent"

As ever, there may be a germ of truth in some of what he says, possibly she might be able to raise the bar and ask more of her son. But the bigger picture of her husband's communication is that he's nearly as bad as her son. Her husband doesn't acknowledge any germ of truth in what she says even though she can at least calm their son down and he does the opposite. And he makes his points not by rational argument to support what he thinks (as you do) but by just laying down the law "it's the truth"and sometimes just by verbally savaging her.

DS does lash out.

I got shouted at horribly by DH this morning in the car. Then I pick up DS from school and get told DS felt silly as he got something wrong and he walked out the classroom and picked up a kids pencil case and smashed it on the floor. Shouting "i hate this pencil case".

We have two of these reports in last 2 weeks. Usually he dorsnt have outbursts at school.

I say this as its an anonymous forum and I would never say it out loud to anyone...but sometimes it felt like I've married an unkind & angry man, and we have produced an unkind and angry son. I cant deny the similarities. I feel lot less empathy to DH which maybe is unfair. But mostly I just feel v sad.