Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY!

[Iamwhoiamwhoareyou]

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

The guides should be for girls, and the scouts for boys, quite simple. Someone can come up with a group for both sexes if they want.

Another reason gender identities are considered philosophical beliefs is because there are over one hundred gender identities. Including non-binary gender identity where there are also surgical and hormonal treatments offered based on someone being neither sex. And gender fluid which changes whenever someone feels that they have changed.

How is this possible to be neither sex or to change sex regularly?

What possible biological markers will be found for these identities? And if someone is about to declare those identities are not valid at the same time as stating that male people can possibly be female people or vice versa, then I think that there seems to be a significant coherence issue with the definition of gender identities.

It's honestly disgusting, some of these comments and replies. I have absolutely no issue with trans people in girl guiding. We also have to remember, and to talk separately about 'fake trans women' and 'real trans women'. And I'm sorry about the terminology I'm using anyway. - as in, for example, if a staff member identified as a woman, but he had a beard, or clearly made no attempt to even try to look like a woman, then that is obvious clearly predatory. I do understand, this isn't the only example though. But these people going to girl guiding, other than staff, would be children/young adults. These people really are typically 'less predatory' than older trans 'women'. And really, these are the people who have no issues. The weird predators are the older men dressing up as women, I mean obviously you can tell with these people. Younger people, especially under 20 have completely different behaviour, and really don't 'prey' on other girls or anything. And I have read most of these replies here, and it is genuinely awful how some people talk about other people. Now, I'm not saying I support trans women in women only spaces necessarily, but especially when it comes to young people/people with a GRC/surgery, I think that is ok. I also do understand how there are people who have bad experience with men, which I completely understand. Trans women, aren't men though, so..? And in any case, wouldn't this just mean trans men? (Masculine looking) can come to 'women only spaces'. .I'd say if I was with a trans man (biological woman) in a woman only space, I'd be a lot more scared than if I was with a trans woman. I'd suggest, you all to go to meet trans people - the media makes them out to be 'monsters', when they're not. Remember that they're still people, like you and me, and we still have to be respectful and kind. 😊 Thanks.

Of course they are men.

It’s not though, sadly. The scouts have more girls than boys near us. Absolutely gutting…..and the international scout jamboree……only the girls got selected that we know. The boys all lost out on places to the girls. The girls should be at guides, not stealing experiences off the boys. No idea why they ever let girls in. Such a shame.
The scout association really let themselves down over this.

Trans women, aren't men though, so..?

Except that they are. I mean....they just are.

ETA I may have misunderstood. If you are referring to women who ID as male then no they are not men. If you are referring to men who ID as women then yes they are men.

You telling me girls can be in the scouts, but boys can't be in the guides?? Seems awfully sexist to me.

Just to pull this out further because of the whataboutery on the previous page.

Laws and policies about safeguarding are not made on the basis that sometime, very unlikely but maybe, someone might find a biological marker that indicates that a male person has a female gender identity. They are made with the knowledge that we have now. Including the assessment based on risk of people in the two different sex classes.

Safeguarding is not purely based on risk of physical harm, of course, but also the need for privacy and dignity.

And again, if a biological marker is found - so what? Ultimately, what does this change in relation to single sex provision? Just because someone might be discovered to have a gender identity different to their body’s sex class doesn’t change the body’s sex class.

Give it a rest! The kid is FOUR...4 year olds identify as everything from the opposite sex to a bloomin' dinosaur, it doesn't necessarily mean they're trans! I think people are more concerned that the parents are trying to enrol a 4 year old male into a female-only organisation for reasons that probably aren't about the child & more about their own ideology. Beavers, Cubs & Scouts accept both boys and girls, so enrolling the child in that organisation would make far more sense & leave the door open for them developing into whoever they are going to be as they grow and mature.

However, what I would also say is that my daughter was first subjected to unwanted sexual behaviour from male classmates at the age of six, so you need to give your head a wobble if you think boys of that age aren't capable of displaying disturbing behaviour towards girls. Behaviour which is often dismissed as "boys will be boys" & "it's because he likes her", when in reality it ought to be "he's an over indulged, under disciplined little 💩who needs to be taught that anything other than an enthusiastic yes means no, touching without consent is never OK, and that females don't exist purely for his pleasure and servitude". Girls need spaces where boys are excluded to have some reprieve from the endless patriarchal BS that is still terrifyingly present in 2025.

If you took the time to read the thread, this has been covered over and over again.

Scouts made the decision to save their organisation decades ago.

It is not sexist due to the organisational decision in the 90s. This is not the gotcha you think it is

As has been explained many times in this thread, they are two different organisations. 30 odd years ago Scouts were on the verge of folding because there were not enough scouts or volunteers so they voted and agreed to be mixed sex. Girls joining saved them.

GG dont want that, they want to stay single sex and as is their right (written in law), they will.

Most "men only" clubs have opened their doors to women, why? Not through altruism or "equality" but because they were on the the verge of closing. As always, they need us more than we need them!

Didn't say it was, but it's stilll sexist all the same. Excluding one sex from something, while allowing both sexes into another. That's textbook sexism right there. It's 2025. Honestly thought that stuff had changed by now.

It has been mentioned way back in the thread that boys can abuse girls at a young age. It seems ludicrous that people think this doesn’t happen.

But also, girls of any age may be abused by older male people and GG provides a space without male
children and maybe even without male adults too. This is important for those girls.

Then you start the campaign to get GG to change their constitution. Let me know how it goes.

They are two different organisations.

Your logic is flawed. There is no reason to expect Scouts decision to impact or be mirrored by GG.

Under the EA2010, legitimate discrimination is allowed when it is considered important. Providing female programmes such as GG provides is a perfectly legitimate case for discriminating based on sex.

Your point is like saying because there are mixed sex football teams, no female only football team should exist because it is sexist.

I think there’s a role for single-sex spaces for boys as well. But it’s not the job of girls or their parents to campaign for them.

I agree that some boys would prefer boy-only spaces, in the same way some girls prefer GG to a mixed-sex option like Scouts.

I understand they're different organisations. But just the concept of it. You lot are all getting funny on trans girls in girl guiding, when you aren't getting funny on girls in scouts? I am aware they are different organisations, and really girl guiding is probably legitimate for discriminating based on sex, but this whole topic isn't black and white. There's many caveats in this, that doesn't make it so simple as just saying 'trans women can't go to girl guiding'. And the positives outweigh the negatives anyway.

I don’t think there would be any resistance to people starting up male single sex groups for children. It is also why the ‘Whatabout scouts’ is not the gotcha that some believe.

Scouts chose to go co-ed so why is it sexist for Girl Guides to stay girls-only?

Are you saying the girls need to follow whatever the boys do? Isn't that sexist?

There's many caveats in this, that doesn't make it so simple as just saying 'trans women can't go to girl guiding'.

What are the caveats? It’s very simple - GG is a single-sex organisation for girls. Only girls can be involved.

If you don’t agree with single-sex spaces, you can enrol your daughter in an organisation like Scouts.

If you have a son and want an equivalent single-sex organisation, campaign for one.

For whom do the positives outweigh the negatives? The girls who chose GG over Scouts because there were no boys there? No.

And as has been (again) pointed out several times, when a boy joins Scouts he and his parents know that there will probably be girls there so they know what they are signing up for. Scouts dropped the "boy" part years ago. But Girl Guides have always kept the "girl" thus implying that it is single sex. Parents who signed their daughters up to GG/Brownies etc were not given that information so they dont know that they are (or were) signing their DD up for a mixed sex activity.

So you are aware they are different organisations, but you just want to double down to make a point that is not really relevant.

If scouts was still for male people only, you would have most posters supporting Scouts remaining single sex for male people. But Scouts is not and you trying to make the point continue to fail.

Safeguarding for a large population absolutely is very clear when based on sex. No exceptions.

What positives are there for female children to have a provision that was designated as being female single sex become mixed sex? How do these outweigh female children losing their access to a single sex provision that was created to help them achieve their potential in a society that treats them with negative sexist discrimination because of their sexed body away from male
peers?

Then I think the parents should be informed if a boy would join the girl guides. Not that it would matter too much, because, so what if there's a boy anyway. ??

Really, you can't think why some girls want girls only spaces? Really and truly?

And what happens if the parents aren't happy with a boy being there? Should they remove their daughter from the group?

Because if a boy joins a single-sex space then it becomes a mixed-sex space and that is not what they wanted when they signed up.