Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY!

[Iamwhoiamwhoareyou]

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

equality still recognises different needs. Boys and girls clearly have and deserve different things, it’s not inequality to make provision for that.

Believing that nobody can change their sex is not an 'opinion' - it is a fact. A medical, scientific, irrefutable fact.

Actually yes sometimes they are. For example a sleepover in the church hall - kids and adults all sleeping in the same space. Currently we aren’t allowed to advise parents if one of those adults is a biological male identifying as a woman. But if we took a male identifying man we’d have to tell parents and provide separate sleeping and toileting facilities.

But if girl guides had moved to mixed sex or be shut down would we still be having this debate?

Moot point. The demand obviously exists; enough girls require a single sex space to sustain it. If it had been go mixed or shut down, they'd have had to make a business decision. But there is a difference between a designated mixed sex space and one that claims to be single sex and isn't. One is an open and honest service, the other has set itself up as a validation tool that is dishonest about its nature and purpose.

And even if it went mixed, it is important that it remains legal for people to set up a girls only group if they want to. The point is that we should be able to have options. Once single sex services aren't allowed, even and especially if mixed sex services call themselves single sex, there is only one option and boys or girls who can't use that option can't even create a new one.

What I don’t believe is that trans woman = abusive man, as the GC movement would have us believe.

That is not at all what we believe. We believe that transwoman = MALE.
And we exclude transwomen as they are MALE. We can't choose to allow some males in and not other males. Hence the blanket 'no males, no exceptions'.

You seem to think a male who calls himself a transwoman is somehow safer than any other male. Why is that?

But they might be sleeping with the adult female volunteers. Is that OK? I wouldn’t feel very comfortable with that.

So girls need to be kept out of scouts.

I don’t understand your point about equality? What do you mean please?

Because equality doesn’t mean removing single sex provisions. Just because mixed sex sport exists, do you think single sex sports shouldn’t exist ?

There are different rules and regulations for most sports when they have mixed sex teams. They are not often exact replicas of the single sex versions. And even in some mixed sex sports where it matters, unless each team matches positions being male and positions being female, a team can stack their team with male players where strength, speed and power are most important and dominate the game.

The only adult males who would be trying that would be the trans identified males. The exceptions would be where you had a husband helping out as a driver and sharing accommodation with his wife.

Otherwise, normal rules with regard to accommodation would apply - the same as for school trips, etc.

As others have pointed out, the Scouts chose to mix because not enough boys wanted to join.

ETA There are still single sex organisations, I believe. I think that the Boys' Brigade still exists as a single-sex organisation? heads to Google

And that now needs to change

No they don't. It's mixed sex and has been for 30 years. It began as a boys' organisation, then the numbers got unsustainably low, and it became openly mixed sex.

However, people can still set up a boys' group if they want to. The existence of a mixed sex group doesn't compel single sex groups to also become mixed sex. That's ridiculous.

No boys are as deserving of single sex spaces. They need to change.

Which is fine. Then they will close as they don’t have the numbers/financing to continue.
They chose to be a mixed sex organisation and promote themselves that way.
Guides remains a single sex organisation and sells itself that way.
see the difference?

What do you mean by “equality” in the context of sports?

My son is 12, he plays cricket and rugby. The teams are mixed at this age, after 12 years they become single sex. This is because of male puberty and ensuring sport is fair and safe for both sexes.

IIRC the fastest ever women’s bowling speed - as a one off - was 132km/hr with 120km/hr considered “fast” for a woman. The fastest ever men’s was 160km/hr, with a fast bowler 140plus.

Teen athletes can be equal in terms of skill, but boys in puberty wil be faster and stronger. Remember how the US women’s soccer team lost to a Dallas under-15 boys’ team?

My take on this is the best way to promote equality in sport is to have well-funded, well-promoted single sex competitions for both sexes.

Anyone wishing for Scouts to become all male again can petition the organisation, campaign, whatever. If enough people agree with you, it'll happen or an alternative single sex organisation will arise.

That's up to you, but it has nothing to do with Guides or the decision communicated today.

This is the WHOLE POINT.

Trans women are men, men, men, men, men.

Men are men, men, men, men, men.

Men are a threat to women.

Men have to stay out of women’s single sex spaces. And that includes trans women. Because they’re men.

It’s not the fact they’re trans that women object to. They object to them because they’re MEN! It’s not transphobia you bloody idiots. It’s MENPHOBIA.

Women are men phobic as 65% of women will be sexually assaulted by a man at least once in their lifetime. Not a women, a man. Not a trans man, a man..

Adult men can join as unit helpers but are required to have separate sleeping and toileting facilities (even from their female partner if they are involved too). But a man who identifies as a woman would be expected to share the adult female bedroom as otherwise it would be discriminating against them. And leaders would not be allowed to tell other adults attending (or children or parents) that they are really male. This hadn’t been addressed in the new guidance but needs to be.

I guess that it can change if it wants to, but has just been pointed out it has been mixed sex for some years now.

I've just checked: the Boys' Brigade is still a single sex organisation. The Girls' Brigade is also still in existence.

What I don’t believe is that trans woman = abusive man, as the GC movement would have us believe.

I'm so fed up of this nonsense.
Either this poster fundamentally hasn't understood what GC means, and is arguing about something they don't actually care whether is true or not, or they are pretending not to.

This has been going on for years and it's so boring and so depressing. These posters don't actually care what the truth is or what they're arguing against as long as they get to pretend fo a bit.

Thank you for this.

It is bigoted and misogynistic to think females don't deserve single sex spaces.

When a male, no matter how identifies, is in a single sex space, it impacts all females. Including those of us who have rape survivor trauma or are DV victims. There are other ways that males in female only spaces/taking female sports medals/awards/attributing male crime to females etc impacts us:

No.

Why? Are boys not allowed a space free from girls too?

The law does actually protect the right to single sexed spaces where it is a proportionate? Ie a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, such as protecting the privacy, dignity, or safety of the boys who have joined on the understanding it is a single sex provision? It applies to the needs of Men/boys as much as it does women and girls. No one, regardless of sex, should be forced unwillingly into mixed sex situations that make them uncomfortable. To do so is a clear breach of their human rights and dignity.

Jeez, and they call GC women nazis.