To think my mum has fallen down a conspiracy rabbit hole and I can't get her out

[Coffeesoon]

My mum has just sent me a video of Ant Middleton explaining how in 2027 the migrants / boat people who are seeking asylum and have already been made legal, will kick off and attack us all.
He says there will be a civil war, he knows because of army contacts and that we need to prepare.
What am I suppose to say to that?
She fully believes that an army is being formed and is constantly telling me or sending me videos about it.
I love my mum but since covid, which she thought wasn't real, she has been thinking the government is out to get us. We live in an area of increased immigrants and she absolutely hates them.
I've tried to talk to her but shes adamant and its really getting me down.

I think you're making shit up as to what I think?

Hear hear, arrogant self congratulatory…exactly.

Here are the recent stats on the ‘army’ of boat people:

Can. you give us some examples of the 'misinformation' that you claim people on this thread are 'spreading' (deliberately? On behalf of whom/what?) so they can be argued properly and debated?

As without that, again, this seems like more of a patronising handwaving away full of assumptions about who people are and what they think than actual evidence. Patronising others isn't the way forward. It is, in my view, one of the biggest reasons the so-called 'left' are in the mess that we are.

It's REALLY easy to claim 'they' (the people you look down on) are all dimwitted victims of terrible (right wing in this thread) conspiracy theories. And they may indeed be wrong about some of it, but again, so may you. If you could, what would you say to address their fears and views and how would you persuade them?

Try putting your point of view across with reason and argument. Simply saying 'sigh' is you suggesting the other person is stupid/wearisome and you're exhausted by it... but you haven't actually said anything that counters their points or gives a different perspective. It's arrogant behaviour on your part.

Groundbreaking.

During periods of bad weather, boat people prefer not to take their dinghies out for a ride.

Where? Don't think so. I'm saying that from your posts it seems you may be as guilty of unevidenced assumptions as your neighbour is. I'm not seeing any recognition in you that that might be the case.

Unclear as to why I'd "make up shit" also. You're implying an agenda of some kind that I really don't have.

If you open your mind too much, your brain will fall out.

All anyone remotely intellectual has been doing for the last... 9 months? Maybe longer... after being forced to listen to a seemingly endless stream of anti-immigration views, is continually weigh up facts by way of Googling every single wild misinterpretation or wilful misrepresentation of data to see if it is true.

It never is.

My sister often sends me wild conspiracy theories. When I gently debunk them, she will send me 'official' proof that it is true. The proof is often a decent source but invariably includes some of form of statement that urges the reader not to assume correlation = causation, or similar. But it's like she's utterly blind to it. She can't see the caveat that puts a pin in her entire belief system, because she doesn't want a pin put it into it.

I consider the impossible all the time. It's part of my job. Believing any old crap you read in the guise of 'expanding your world view' and 'intellectual curiosity' is still, at the end of day, believing any old crap. Because you want to.

So this really is misinformation isn't it? You have posted this with snark but no analysis.

We all know, even the people that produce that site page, that the boats can't launch in high wind and big seas.

So what exactly are you saying? Are you deliberately polarising the issue by posting misleading statistics?

I will say it again, whatever you think about mass migration, for or against, it's led to half the country hating the other half and vice versa, in a way I have never seen before in my life, and as the numbers are increasing this is only going to get worse.

I wouldn't take talk of civil war too lightly, I've already lived through one war on these shores, it's not as far fetched as you think.

Thank you. This method of 'arguing' (without arguments, evidence and with false accusations and what look very much like ad homs) is indeed extremely tiresome.

Meanwhile, no problems are resolved in reality. Nobody comes together or discusses ingood faith. Every member of every tribe pats themselves on the back about how 'clever' they are in offing the opposition but doesn't put forward any solutions or engage beyond "just tell them they're stupid.'

History is full of this shit. It never turns out well.

Why not say 'Sigh'? It's the same tripe I am hearing over and over again and am tired of trying to encourage people into thinking properly. Done it many a time, I presume that's also wrong in your book?

Anyone could see the post I responded 'sigh' to was made by a person who has no interest in ever looking at anything in a critical, factual, reasoned manner and the subsequent posts by the same person has cemented that view.

I have yet to see one single person in the last few years who hold these generalised views of all migrants even remotely interested in seeing facts (facts are truths) and being more considerate and critical in their thinking. One thing I learned at a young age. You cannot change people, only the way you react to them and sometimes a 'sigh' is just what it deserves.

But you're not saying anything. You've decided you're uniquely qualified to tell us what's a fact and what's not, but instead of putting this incredible skill to work on this thread to show people where they are misinformed and to provide the actual correct and evidenced information that supports your view, you instead just post about how you COULD do that if you chose to, but you can't be bothered?

Okay, sure. Really don't think this is the great 'intellectual' strategy you seem to think it is, but I guess you're the only one who can say if I'm right about that. Good position to put yourself in!

Half the country doesn't hate the other half.

A few loud voices backed by people outside of the UK (evidenced on X by the recent update) are stirring up a tiny minority of the country.

There is little to join chance of civil war in the UK at the moment.

What war in the UK are you referring to?

So what are you suggesting the poster you're patronising here does instead?

You don't know that they aren't genuinely 'expanding their view'. Again, you're assuming they aren't, while somehow YOU are and YOU know better. And we should all take this as self evident. But with zero evidence to back this assumption of yours up.

There's absolutely zero point in responding with evidence. Those with anti-immigration views do NOT want facts getting in the way of their feelings.

I shared a link earlier that fact checks the claim that the UK is now the rape capital of the world. The authors of the data explicitly say it shouldn't be used in that way.

Zero fucks given by the poster that posted it. A comforting lie - one that reinforces your prejudices and belief system - is better than an uncomfortable truth .

How are they "helpful for Russia-Chinese power axis"?

How is rape a comforting lie?

Not "my" prejudices, ta. Where are you getting what my views are?

My mum says things like ‘it’s al you see these days’ about whatever her issue is, have tried explaining algorithms to her but not much luck!

so when she’s not paying attention I subscribe to more balanced accounts on her you tube to help even it out and give her a different viewpoint! She doesn’t realise she sees certain videos cause she’s subscribed, cause she doesn’t notice ive subscribed and it helps her see different views!

she doesn’t have Facebook but if she did I’d ‘follow’ better accounts to even up her viewing

I suggest the poster does exactly what s/he says, and weigh up the facts.

Just fact check stuff. That's all. Using reputable sources, not the first YouTube video or GBNews article that confirms their bias. Go right back to clean source data, and fact check. I'm not expecting any more of him/her, than they expect of other people.

I don't know better. I'll cheerfully admit I don't know shit. So I check the facts.

I don't know how you want me to evidence this. I'm certainly not going to provide the receipts that debunk every single misrepresented piece of data and anecdote presented as data in this thread - not least because, if I did, those holding staunch anti-immigration views would ignore them. You can't undo an emotional response to something with rational evidence.

What do you mean?

That's not true. It was well reasoned, logically argued post - whether you agree with the content of it or not. It wasn't racist or fearmongering, but balanced and reasonable, to my mind at least.

You should learn how to actually take on arguments you don't agree with, rather than simply calling them 'tripe'. If, as you say, you're hearing these arguments over and over, then surely you have formulated some strong and convincing responses? Surely you are able to put forward your own views with all the more conviction and integrity because you are so familiar with the opposition? I don't know what your arguments are, because all I've heard from you is your sighing and name-calling.

As JS Mill said, the person who knows only their own side of the argument knows little of that. Clearly you know enough to say 'sigh' - not very impressive, is it?

I think lockdown was a massive thing in turning people over to conspiracy theories . All that time spent alone with the internet for company, and not understanding the way algorithms work. I don’t know what the answer is to get people back to the real world though, especially if they are older and don’t get out much.

I was referring to the poster I responded to's prejudices when I said that, not you.

And yet as a self-described leftie, are you going to be putting some reasoned factual points to the clearly incorrect views on immigration etc on here?

I am truly interested because a, I'd like to see your points argued in the expert manner you seem to paint yourself and b, I would very much like to see if your views are listened to at all.

Be interesting if you say 'sigh' at the end of it.