To think my mum has fallen down a conspiracy rabbit hole and I can't get her out

[Coffeesoon]

My mum has just sent me a video of Ant Middleton explaining how in 2027 the migrants / boat people who are seeking asylum and have already been made legal, will kick off and attack us all.
He says there will be a civil war, he knows because of army contacts and that we need to prepare.
What am I suppose to say to that?
She fully believes that an army is being formed and is constantly telling me or sending me videos about it.
I love my mum but since covid, which she thought wasn't real, she has been thinking the government is out to get us. We live in an area of increased immigrants and she absolutely hates them.
I've tried to talk to her but shes adamant and its really getting me down.

I have a friend who is into this sort of bullshit. It's mainly about COVID. The stuff he says is really bizarre. I avoid him now, as I can't have a normal conversation with him.

@wrongthinker consistently posts misinformation and you’re not the only one to notice. It’s hilarious

@wrongthinker ( perfect user name btw) can’t be bothered quoting your post any more. A simple Google and fact check would tell you the truth about mobile phones and jobs. What you,ve said is rubbish
unless your algorithms are that messed up that all you get is “facts” from that well known reform “research” body migration watch uk… it’s really astounding that you accuse me of not keeping up with these things when this basic myth has been busted so many times over
you’ve got several people here explaining that you’re wrong, giving you examples etc. you just continually ignore them
you are proving the whole point of this thread. Again and again

Oh I'm sooooo bored of this now. Like I said, give me the actual facts and information then. Or what's the point? The argument keeps going around in circles.

Me: Here's my argument or opinion
You: Well that's misinformation/wrong/a conspiracy theory
Me: Okay, tell me what's wrong with it
You: ... No, there's no point. And you're a bad person.
Me: This name calling thing and not presenting an argument is a big part of the problem
You: Well I have loads of data and information and excellent points, actually
Me: Go on, then
You: ... Erm. You're a bad person!

Etc. I really honestly think your purpose is just to try to wear out the opposition. I wonder if you'll ever self-reflect and ask yourself why it's so hard for you to actually make arguments and points. I hope so.

I'll just say the same as I said to your mate:

Oh I'm sooooo bored of this now. Like I said, give me the actual facts and information then. Or what's the point? The argument keeps going around in circles.

Me: Here's my argument or opinion
You: Well that's misinformation/wrong/a conspiracy theory
Me: Okay, tell me what's wrong with it
You: ... No, there's no point. And you're a bad person.
Me: This name calling thing and not presenting an argument is a big part of the problem
You: Well I have loads of data and information and excellent points, actually
Me: Go on, then
You: ... Erm. You're a bad person!

Etc. I really honestly think your purpose is just to try to wear out the opposition. I wonder if you'll ever self-reflect and ask yourself why it's so hard for you to actually make arguments and points. I hope so.

I did give you the facts. You ignored them and continued with your xenophobic tripe.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and quote some actual facts. Not unchecked rubbish that you regurgitate from Facebook, Tiktok and the Daily Fail.

I would bet you can't or won't. But if you are game, let's start with your source about mobile phones.

edit = small typo fixed in

Please quote your response where you actually engaged in actual debate, as apparently I missed it. You continue to be aggressive and abusive, but I will give it one last shot. Please post the quote of your comment and I'll respond.

On the subject of phones, here's a quote from an article by Migration Watch.

"See mention of the fact that free mobile phones are handed out to illegal immigrants by the head of the Immigration Services Union Lucy Moreton, who was quoted in this 23 September 2021 Telegraph article as follows: ^‘She said face-to-face questioning in immigration centres had… been scaled back…. [and] instead, [interviewing] was done via mobile phones provided by the Home Office, with 14,000 mobile phones handed out this year.’ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/23/channel-migrants-asked-just-four-screening-questions-border/^"

Here's more recent research by GB News: www.gbnews.com/news/benefits-illegal-migrants-channel-crossing-enter-uk

www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2021/11/11/illegal-immigrants-handed-an-estimated-30000-taxpayer-funded-mobile-phones-since-middle-of-2020/

Funny how when one absolute fucking moron drops out another swiftly pops up to take their place.

You're hilarious

This shows how you really dont understand the sources you read... or read responses that people post.
Yesterday I said that a simple Google would tell you the mobile phone commonly given out as standard was rubbish...as long as you dont try to get your sources of info from Migration watch uk (so incredibly well known as been funded by reform etc and for misanalysing data and misinformation..) then low and behold that's who you quote..

Along with GB news... seriously you genuinely have no clue as to the level of your bias and misinformation do you?
At the end of the day you've proven yourself to be down the very same rabbit hole as OP was talking about. And for the same reason you won't come out of it. So I am not bothering pursuing this with you
Just know that once reform etc have finished blaming immigrants for everything they will then blame someone else. And that might well be you. One thing is guaranteed, they won't make your life any better. Look at trump in the US

Funnily enough, I predicted you would not have a counterargument, but only a dismissal of the sources.

What would be really impressive is if you actually looked at the info I shared and told me why and how you consider it to be wrong. Simply saying it must be wrong because you have a problem with the source is not helpful or remotely convincing to anyone with a basic level of critical thinking. Gosh, even if you could say, "here's why I don't trust this source," that would be something. For example, if you quoted from the BBC, I might say, well we have seen recent high-level resignations as the BBC have admitted their bias and outright lying, so I don't find the source to be reliable. That would at least be engaging in the debate to some extent. However, I would still try to explain why and how I thought the information or argument shared was wrong, if that's what I thought, because otherwise the discussion just ends there.

Instead, you've just gone back to the same old nonsense, still refusing to put forward any actual arguments of your own. Can you honestly not see that's all you're doing? I'd be so embarrassed if that were me.

You know, it's okay to just say, "Actually I haven't got any arguments; I just feel deeply that you're wrong. But since I can't engage appropriately, I'll just read and think about it until I have managed to formulate a devastating argument, or at least a substantial point, and decide if I want to put it forward." I do that often on threads or in discussions - just listen until I know what I think, and feel able to articulate it. It means I don't make myself look silly, or end up falling back on insults and other logical fallacies. Just a thought.

Lol. GB news you crack me up. Sorry I thought you were being serious - you nearly got me.

The Telegraph and Migrant watch articles were from the middle of the pandemic. You actually need to check what you are reading is current, or you risk looking like an uninformed bigot.

I was never once aggressive or abusive. Please copy and paste examples of this.

Wrongthinker - you have had your head turned. You are incapable of critically evaluating news sources and there is absolutely no point engaging with you.

You deliberately ignore reasonable, factual information. You are a poster child for everything that is wrong with the world.

Lacking in critical thinking skills, living in an algorithmic echo chamber of flags and terrorists and misinformation. You are the reason that reasonable decent communities are crumbling because of your intellectual deficit.

On which note I bid you goodbye. You are a lost cause.

And yet, despite being "the poster child for everything that is wrong with the world"(!!) you still haven't managed to counter a single one of my arguments or points with anything except abuse or logical fallacy. You'd think if I were so utterly stupid and useless, it would be easy for you to do better.

I mean, I don't doubt that I'm wrong about some things, and to that end, I try to hold my opinions fairly loosely. And I don't doubt that I have biases and stories I tell myself that ought to be dismantled - I certainly try to be honest, but I'm human, and we all have these flaws. (Yes, even you! Some might say, especially you -- but I won't go that far.)

I have repeatedly tried to engage in good faith, and repeatedly got nothing except insults and abuse in return. Apparently I'm completely wrong - but no one can tell me how or why. I'm asked to give sources, but then told that I'm only allowed to give sources that are biased to the other person's side. I'm told that I'm refusing to listen to arguments, but no one will actually tell me what those arguments are. Apparently I'm meant to accept "you're a poster child for everything that is wrong with the world" as a logical argument against views that I have expressed. And if I won't then I'm "not listening."

I do feel some second-hand embarrassment for people like yourself. It is really sad that this is the standard of argument produced on threads like these. I mean, I may be wrong and people with similar views to me may be wrong, but at least we have the ability to put forward our views point by point, and the courage to set out what we're thinking for discussion. It's strange to me that you are so convinced you're right, and yet so unable to articulate your views that you're reduced to just throwing insults around in the hopes that you'll win the argument by intimidation. The point of debate and discussion is not to win, but to get closer to the truth. And all you're doing is trying to frighten people away from considering what the truth might be, whether that lands more on your side or mine.

On the plus side, I'm really quite pleased to have been called "the poster child for everything that is wrong with the world." Made me laugh a lot. Shame it's too long for an MN user name!

I think it's fine to be a conspiracy theorist in your free time, as long as it doesn't take over your life

I agree
i really don’t need to waste my time trying to debate with articles from gb news, migrant watch uk, and, quite sadly (as they used to have some debate but are strangely drifting) the telegraph. You’ve pointed out the articles are old, I,ve pointed out the 2nd one is funded by really quite right wing sources and gb news isn’t even a new channel ( saw a Facebook post from them today re pcr tests and virtually every poster and supporter on there was going on about covid being fake, the establishment , vaccines do more harm than good etc…. Oh could it be they peddle misinformation ?)

the poster is just repeating the same false narrative and behaving, on this topic, like a CT. But can’t see it. Wouldn’t matter if they had a 100 people countering their argument, it can’t compete with the reams and reams of rubbish they’ve been fed on line and will go back to

You know what, you have no idea whether 100 people countering my arguments would make a difference, and neither do I. Because as of the time of writing, I haven't had ONE person countering my arguments. Literally all I've had is people calling me names and talking about me like I'm an idiot and a piece of shit. Which, I've got to be honest here, isn't doing anything at all to win me over to your side.

The truth is, I'm an easy person to convince with solid, logical argument. I have no particular investment in seeing the world in one way only. I've changed my mind about lots of things in the past and I expect to change my mind again in the future. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and indeed, tend to believe that conspiracies are the least likely cause of most things that are happening - incompetence being the most probable, in most cases.

So the fact that you and your friends have been unable to even debate me, when I have repeatedly invited you to do so and explicitly said I am open to your views, tells me that you really are falling short of what I would expect of a rational adult. It's not even that your side doesn't have any good arguments! Jesus, I could argue for your side better than you can! It's honestly shocking to me that you can't put a logical chain of thought together.

Well, I guess that was a big waste of my time, expecting you to be coherent and fair. I will try to stay generous and remember that not everyone with whom I disagree is this inarticulate and rude, but it surely does reflect badly on you as individuals. I hope that you're able to reflect at some point about who you are and how you conduct yourselves online. Go well.

I've heard similar from someone connected to the forces, but it was along the lines of it being a risk that has been identified and is being prepared for rather than something that will actually happen.

I work in an environment where the current UK terror threat level is on display. Identifying and preparing for any potential threat is what we should be doing so I didn't give it much more thought.

I can see how it could be twisted and used by those who wish to stir up trouble though.

As someone who used to love conspiracy theories myself I developed my own theory about why that was so. Put simply , I rather liked the idea that someone or some group was in charge of the world. Someone actually knew WTF was going on. And I found that sort of comforting. Even if that someone was a Bond villain living in a hollowed out volcano. Or the Freemasons . Or the Catholic Church.

But , although I loved these books , I never truly believed them. Because the sad truth is nobody has a clue how to run things, everyone is just bumbling along and life is not that exciting or exotic.Thats the great secret ' they ' don't want us to know (jk)

The truly awful part is how frightened and disempowered this stuff makes people who believe it. Whether you think Biden stole the 2020 election or Trump stole it in 24 the end result is people thinking there is no point voting...it's all fixed. My own entree into this was a delightfully bonkers book about the Cathars and reincarnation btw. I don't think a secret army of migrant cab drivers would have captured my youthful imagination in quite the same way tbh.

You've had plenty of counter to your argument and misinformation. The sources are incredibly unreliable and actively pedal lies and misinformation
Your repeated claims to the opposite just show yourdelusion

I think I’d approach it like this - “Okay mum, you might be right, I might be wrong, who knows anymore. But what good is it doing you keeping track of these things? Are you able to do anything about it by feeding yourself this information all day? Is it making you feel safer and happier?”

There’s a lot of shit going on in the world but at some point you’ve got all the information and it’s just repeating itself. Meanwhile your attention on these videos and articles are making money for people who have dedicated their lives to creating doom content. At some point you have to switch off and live what’s left of your life.

Yuck. Your poor mum. Stop trying to coerce, harass and bully her and allow her ot have her opinions. If there is something that triggers you and you cannot bear an opinion, just ask her to change the subject. Problem solved.