To rethink how we share costs?

[whyohwhyisitalwayswet]

Sorry, a bit long but don't want to drip feed!

My partner and I have a solid, happy relationship, have been together for over four years but are not married and don't live together. I'm in my early 50s, and he is in his late 50s. I have a child (early teens) at home, and he has adult children in their mid/late 20s. My only niggling issue is over how we share costs - day to day, as well as on an upcoming Christmas break.

As background we have different attitudes to money generally - I like hosting/being generous/paying for things in the expectation/hope that others will be generous too. He prefers to split costs (even small amounts). This took some getting used to initially as I would treat him to meals/things, and when it was his turn he would put things on the shared tab. I had to learn to put everything on the shared tab.

Question about splitting costs day to day: I don't drive and have less flexibility in my schedule because of my work and single parenting. Currently he drives to me (about 40 mins) every weekend, and I pay for all costs of meals/wine while we are at my place which is 2 nights/3 days usually, so much so that I even pay for takeout if we have it at my place. I've always thought that I end up paying a lot more than he does given the current arrangement, especially as we drink a couple of bottles of wine over the weekend. He covers petrol costs (and it is an electric car now, so much less) to come to me, but he is very helpful around the house (will sort out leaky taps etc), and will drop my son off at a playdate and such (usually short distances). When I have brought sharing of costs up he says I don't take into account the costs of running a car - insurance, servicing etc, so actually it evens out. But, is that something I should be taking into account (given he's always had a car and uses it for commuting to work/sport/socialising and not just to visit me)?

Question about splitting costs on holiday: If we eat out or are on holiday we split expenses fairly (I pay proportionally more if my DC is with us). This is fair I think. There are, however, occasions like this Christmas when my DC is with his dad. I want to spend two weeks by the beach, so I've booked an (expensive) rental. I was going to go anyway so didn't think to ask him to contribute. He is joining me for a week of the two weeks. I am sure that any wine/food we have that he pays for he will put all of that on the shared tab. I just got an order of wine in for home (I paid), and he suggested taking those bottles with us to the beach rental too. That got me thinking, I will pay for the rental and the wine??

Added complication is that we earned the same when we first met but he has since transitioned to a more rewarding but less remunerative career so now he earns less than half of what I do. However, he has substantial savings, and a pension pot whereas I still have a child at home, and a 1/3 of what he does in savings/pensions so do need to save.

So my questions are:

a) is how we split costs fair - day to day, and while on this Christmas holiday?

b) if not, how do I have this conversation with my partner?

Please don't tell me to LTB over this :). We have a very solid relationship, and I just want to be preemptive about this issue that does crop up. Thanks!

It's really about the gap in expectations.

It's like when I go out with posh ladies, they all have been brought up with a certain social code and know how to play the game. I am pretty clueless. I no longer go out socially as it bothers me so much that I can't really follow what to do, when properly. (Also ND, so get overwhelmed easily.)

I have a tight husband but I'm also pretty tight, so it works.

Your problem is that you're playing chess, with lots of social cues when to pay, take turns, etc and he's more playing dominoes, so things follow logically.

He may well also have got into the habit of being treated by you and is very happy in that situation.

You do need to shine a light on your needs as otherwise the resentment will end up with it all being expressed at once and it will probably be the end. Some subtle or maybe unsubtle changing of the direction in which the relationship is travelling may result in a better situation for both of you. I'd personally have a shouting match but that's probably also why I don't do that much socially anymore! :-)

Maybe go back to your therapist and explore boundaries, assertiveness, strategies to avoid being walked over, what you are hoping to gain from this relationship and how realistic this might be………

And do a financial retirement review - because the risk of your general generosity leaving you with a less than adequate income is real.

This is a very measured and thoughtful response, thank you for that. There are certainly very different expectations/cultural attitudes to money here. I don't do shouting matches - hate conflict (have a very high-conflict ex and it traumatised me) but I do need to have this conversation to avoid resentment building up down the line.

You really do. :-)

I'm suggesting you talk sooner rather than later as you won't be so annoyed.

That's very helpful, practical advice. I am confident and assertive professionally that the mismatch with how I am in relationships on things like this is quite stark, and hard for me to fathom. I am learning to put boundaries in place, and be assertive but on money issues less so...(feels crass, but I need to get over that).

And read some Brene Brown books or audio as she's very good on wholeheartness whilst remaining boundaried.

So he's spectacularly dumb then? Very unintelligent? Because why do you have to mention it for him to realise the disparity?

Can you put the Christmas rental on the shared tab too? I recommend you do at least half of it as he is staying with you for a week.
if he asks why? That is your chance to bring up the topic and say well it is only fair and the discussion will flow. Good luck

I see your point. But maybe he thought I was being generous given I earn more or am a good host (which I am, not just to him)? I'm resisting the conclusion you (and others) are pointing me towards 😅

So to reframe this, you have raised the money issue repeatedly and he has continued to act in the same way regarding finances. Four times is about two times too many for someone to take note and change because their partner is unhappy.

Secondly, you think if you asked him to share the cost of your holiday that he would rather not go?

I'm afraid both these things make me feel he is taking advantage of you financially. And the birthday thing - well that makes me think he's not as kind and generous as you want to portray him.

I know you don't want to see it though.

We'll keep trying 😂 I know it can be hard, when everything else is so good, but this seems like an issue that will get bigger and bigger if you don't get a hold of it now.

A pattern you've built up seems to be that you keep giving and giving and giving and expecting that if you just keep silently giving for long enough then eventually it will trigger some kind of gift in return. And you get angry and explode when it doesn't. You really do need to learn to communicate about money. So if he suggests that you bring the wine and you want him to contribute to the cost then ask "so how do you want us to pay for the wine? I can bring some but I've already paid for it so I can't put it on the tab. So how about you get the dinner on Friday instead?" Your silences and explosions are as dysfunctional as his meanness.

I think also there's a difference between doing favours or "treats" for someone and sharing expenses with them. People usually keep track of both but in different ways. Expenses are formal and can use the tab, treats and favours are usually balanced but don't use a tab and they are optional and not so obligatory. It's as if you want to manage everything like a treat or favour with no tab at all, while he acts as if shared expenses go on the tab and everything else is a treat or favour that doesn't need to be repaid.

does it matter that I currently earn much more than him (even though he has much more in savings/pension)?

No it doesn't! It might mean you can afford to treat him with expensive gifts and holidays while he does more favours for you with lifts or DIY, but the basics of life should still be equal and within his means. A treat is still only a treat and it certainly doesn't mean you keep paying out for him until finally he tells you to stop or gives you something in return.

I was also brought up to always be generous to people who had/earned less.

That is patronising and it can be insulting as well. No wonder if you get taken advantage of - you need to learn to talk like an equal to someone who earns less than you.

I have a very dear friend who can sometimes be like this. It's annoying because I have to make extra effort just to keep things fair and sometimes I even have to think of extra ways to make up to her because she is very "oh let me pay" while other friends are much easier because they're equal and upfront about it "I'll get it because it's my turn and you can get the next one".

When do you think you’ll speak to him, OP?

To be honest, this thread is making me feel better about myself! I am probably the person who is “not tight just careful” in my relationship but I would never let this level of inequity happen and I am super fast to put my hand in my pocket if I’m worried it is.

How about suggesting that you go to his place some weekends? He has by far the better deal coming to you. If things were fair and he wanted to be fair, he would then cook for you and pay for all the food and wine. Suggest you do that next weekend and see if he goes with it or if he tries putting things on the tab.

I like many pp see this as meanness from him. It would be really off putting to me. I also think your child deserves better than having this guy be a drain on your finances and therefore his future.

Oh, I would also say that do not underestimate how much those savings and that pension is worth to him! I got divorced a few years ago and I was really shocked when I got our pension statements for divorce about quite how much money we were each building up. Those savings and pensions may well be worth an awful lot more than the pay difference between you currently (and I think we can assume he’s not going to share).

I do see it, and I am grateful for all the advice. I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater on the relationship.

Our past conversations have led to some changes, to be fair (the shared tab when we eat out or are on holiday - and that is done fairly), but not to a full scale review of our arrangements weekend to weekend. Some of the things like birthdays/christmas gifts are harder as it isn't about equality in costs but symmetry in efforts/thoughtfulness.

Last year for Christmas, for instance, since he was out of work, I thoughtfully told him we could do just coupons (for acts of service) - I didn't want him to spend unnecessarily. I knew he was eyeing some lovely expensive boots so I did get those for him. Then I found his adult children told him what they wanted (not cheap) and he bought those for them. So, to recap, I got coupons, he got fancy boots from me, and his adult kids got proper gifts. I think I contributed to this situation though!

That’s the downside of choosing to be with a tight-wad. It’s your choice.

That one is on you, OP. You told him that the pair of you were going to exchange coupons and then you went and bought him something very expensive. In his situation, I would’ve been quite cross with you because you had made one agreement and then done something else, which in my view would’ve made me look mean through your actions.

Regarding the staying over could you ask for a small contribution towards food, for example £25 per week or he buys a takeaway and you share the price of alcohol?

It’s so tricky. You paint a nice picture, to an extent.

I read your post to my husband and he said it’s simple put everything on the tab.

I wanted to give your man the benefit of the doubt but my suspicions were raised about him when you said his car costs should be offset against what you buy when he stays - that really isn’t justifiable and I am
not sure he would feel the same way if you went to him for the weekend.

Likewise, it may be that on a weekend if you went to his, he is so tight, he would go without wine and nice food - serving up beans and toast for example!

I think because you have said there are many positives here then you should raise this issue. However because you find it very hard to discuss in person - you could consider a WhatsApp conversation?

I mean it really is not on that he is leaving you to pay for the seaside trip and is likely to continue to do that in years ahead.

It’s just courtesy to surely pay for the food shop and wine?! Surely.

So I do think you need to tackle this. Money is such an important thing in a relationship and even if he thinks you love to treat people there are some manners lacking on his part and just general lack of consideration for you, I think.

So do tackle this and if it all goes to pot I like the sound of a week in your villa and I will absolutely buy the wine and food!!!

I agree!!! This one is on me! I was trying to be nice, but I did breach our agreement.

But he bought my son a board game from a charity store while I got his children nice presents (and there are three of them with partners, and a grand kid, so not cheap). I put it down to his not having a job at the time, but it was my son's birthday a few weeks ago, and he just made him a card. He is great with spending time/effort/playing with my son, so I didn't say anything, but it did feel a bit mean.

The relevance of you being vulnerable is huge. The lack of financial reciprocity would have revealed itself early on and you overlooked it. This, with your generosity, over functioning and conflict adverse nature made you an appealing option to someone who is financially off. Even now you aren’t saying my partners taking advantage of me so I’m ending it, you’re saying my partners taking advantage of me, how can I get him to be nicer?

Your friends and family loving him means literally nothing. It only means they like the polished fake version of him. What would they really say if they knew that not only is he happily letting you buy his food, he’s so tight and controlling he wanted you to put halves towards his pastry?

And this has gone on for four years. He must owe you thousands. A nice man does not ask a single mum to go halves on his pastry. That was so petty it was utterly ridiculous.

He's clearly never going to offer to be fair, so you need to advocate for yourself. Tell him that if you're taking the wine you have then he needs to give you half the cost, if not then you'll buy more in the shared tab.
HMRC allows 45p a mile for travel costs. If you work that into his travel, how much are each of you contributing on your weekends?

Did this guy lose out big time in his divorce?

When you are at a restaurant on the shared tab - does he order the cheapest thing? Is the tab split down the middle or is it per actuals?

Oops just seen your update about buying your son a second hand gift from the charity shop - this kind of betrays everything you have said about him!

nope nope nope I would hate this so much