How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

[Newparent101]

Sorry for the long post, seeking your wise advice!

My partner's dad (aged 70) uses smacking as a way to "teach", which I'm totally against. My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline. I just don't agree.

We have our first baby, who's 4 months old. My nieces are 7 and 3, and the grandfather smacks them to "teach" them when they've done something wrong. My sister in law told him she doesn't want him to smack her kids - the grandfather (her father-in-law) stopped speaking to her for a year. Now they have made up, but he smacks her girls again.

I want to find a way to prevent it from ever happening in the first place, and have already told my partner that if his dad (or he) smacks our child I'll immediately take our child away and she won't be seeing her grandfather again.

But of course I want to prevent this ever happening in the first place. I suspect my father-in-law won't listen to me if I state this boundary (given he ignored my sister-in-law for a year and now smacks her girls again). My partner refuses to "lay down the law" with his dad. What's more complicated is his parents don't speak English (they're german) and my german isn't very good.

Anyone have any advice on how to make sure this doesn't happen well ahead of time? Would really like to prevent being in situation where I need to keep our daughter away from him, and also want to ensure that first "smack" never happens. My partner says it's up to me to speak to his dad, but I know his dad won't listen to me. But also struggling to get my partner to acknowledge just how damaging smacking can be (he's also defensive, since of course he was smacked by his dad as a child). My partner and I have had numerous conversations about it already but I can't seem to get through to him.

This is outrageous to read - if someone laid a hand on my child they would NEVER see them again and to be honest I would likely report them for assault.

This is the bit that stood out to me too. Honestly, it gave me chills:

My sister in law told him she doesn't want him to smack her kids - the grandfather (her father-in-law) stopped speaking to her for a year. Now they have made up, but he smacks her girls again.

He cut off his DIL and presumably his granddaughters (?) because he wasn't allowed to smack them. And as soon as he was allowed access to them, he smacked them.

This is not a man I would want to be around me, let alone my child.

Edited: I originally thought SIL was FIL's daughter, but she's his DIL.

Does the GF see your baby often? I personally would never leave her unsupervised with him but the biggest issue you have is with your partner who doesn’t seem to realise that this outdated form of discipline is proven to have detrimental affects on children’s anxiety and is not effective anyway. The irony though of one poster saying they would be violent towards the GF if they smacked their child. Violence which includes smacking should be forbidden and I wish it was outlawed in England too. My husband did it once with our eldest DD and I let him know in no uncertain way he better never do it again. I later learnt his mum used to smack him with a back of a hairbrush. You need to. Make sure your partner educates himself on the harmful effects of smacking young children. I would also tell your SIL he is smacking her kids again and maybe all of you go NC with him.

What a fucking scumbag. Don’t leave your kids with him. If that causes a problem with your DH, remind them that safeguarding at school will take an extremely dim view of your FIL’s behaviour.

That’s all kinds of fucked up @TheAlertLimeSnail

That man would not lay a god damn hand on my son.

The irony though of one poster saying they would be violent towards the GF if they smacked their child.

@Cornishclio do you have children? I don't think this is ironic/hypocritical. If an adult physical attacked my child I think my maternal instinct would be to reciprocate and I think my partner would say the same. I'm not sure I would act on it though and I hope to never, ever find out.

'We do not smack, hit, scare or hurt people to try and 'teach them a lesson'. All that teaches them is that violence is a legitimate form of discipline which it isn't. It's assault.

If they hit someone as an adult they could go to prison, or get in a fight that left them brain damaged.

If you disregard my wishes on this and ever raise a hand to my children, you won't be able to see them anymore.'

Fucking abusive arsehole. I’d ring the police every time he ‘smacked’ any of those little girls. It’s illegal and disgusting. I’d be questioning my relationship if you ‘can’t get through’ to him that no is allowed to lay a finger on your child. I’d choose violence myself if any one were to hit my kid.

My bil was like this when he was alive and husband was similarly meek about it. So I told my husband that if he hit our kids I’d hit him back and I slapped him across the face at a wedding in front of everyone. The hitting never happened again & it prompted his own son to stand up for himself too.

I’m not saying you need to hit him, but calling the police or social services is a fair threat too. Germany deals with referrals in a much stricter way than the UK so it could be a real deterrent. Not visiting him or leaving the home when he comes to visit you is also fair.

It's physical abuse! There is not a chance in hell I would allow a full grown adult to smack my young child. It's illegal in Germany anyway, so the fact that he's German shouldn't mean that it's okay to smack! Are you based in England? Unfortunately I don't think it's illegal there yet? (It is in Scotland). There's a wealth of evidence to prove the negative, long-term affects on a child. It's a simple choice really - either your FIL can see your child and not smack, or if he expects to smack your child, he will never see him/her again. Don't think I'd be sad if my FIL didn't speak to me again for this reason and I'm sad your SIL didn't have the necessary support to stick to her guns on this one.

The problem isn't just your FIL, it's also your partner!

My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline. I just don't agree

This didn't come up before you had your DC?

What other methods of discipline (and parenting) do you and your partner have differing opinions on? To me this would be such a huge dealbreaker.

Let's not forget that smacking is a form of torture; here a much bigger, heavier, more powerful individual deliberately inflicting physical pain as a means to frighten and control.

Being born in Germany in the aftermath of WW2 suggests this man himself may have been on the receiving end of some ugly things, which can crawl down the generations.

His own son is as a result a damaged victim - who may not be capable of dealing with the father who physically abused him.

FIL is a danger to children.

And it's going to have to be you who controls him.

As far as the law goes, it seems England is shamefully behind Scotland and many other countries on legislating against this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q4x9d9xgpo

So you tell him, because your husband can't:

'We do not smack our children.

You will never smack our children again.

(If you decide not to go no contact) You will never be allowed to be alone with them again.

And if you ever raise a hand to them again you will never see them again.'

You tell them clearly in writing.

And you stick to it.

The first sign, you pick your children up, put them in the car and go.

You will have to lead your damaged husband on this, because he's incapable. Shouldn't have to, but here you are.

Sorry OP, but this is nuts for you to even have to think about. You learn to say in German “If you ever lay a hand on my DD, I will rip both your arms out of their sockets and shove them up your arse, and you will never see her again’ Find your anger!

My partner says it's up to me to speak to his dad, but I know his dad won't listen to me
You need to speak to grandad in the only language that he understands, punch him in the face.
(Well obviously that would be completely unacceptable but I would want to)
Cut contact, he's a violent and abusive man, do not allow him anywhere near your children.

What the grandfather is doing is illegal. It's illegal in Germany, the UK and Spain. Some think it's legal in some parts of the UK, but it isn't. Parents have the defense of 'legal chastisement' in England. Grandparents do not.

So your partner needs to tell this bully that if he dares to smack your child, he'll report him to the police. If your partner won't do this, you use your parental rights to ensure your child is never taken to Germany to be in his presence.

I can't believe you have got to this stage.
Having a child with a man and you're not sure if he'd physically abuse your child? Seriously?

"My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline." How have you come to have a child with him? I can't think of many things I would dump someone for faster, as a friend or partner. Combine that with his horrible parents (they are both accountable) and messed up relationship with them, I would have run a mile.

Use Google translate and message or email your in laws in advance that no one is going to be hitting your child, and that includes them and is not negotiable. Them seeing their grandchild is dependent on them agreeing they won't hit them. Although come on OP, that shouldn't need saying. He sounds horrible in general, why do you want them in your child's life?

What happens when your child witnesses their cousins being hurt by grandad?

Erm if someone thought smacking a child was ok… they’d not be seeing my child. What a stupid prick!

Absolutely awful. That's child abuse. No more visits for the abusive grandparents. They need to respect your parenting choices. And you need to protect your children. If they hit an adult they would be arrested. It's no different for children. Please don't ever leave your kids alone with these weirdos.

Yes a teacher would report it. It’s not for the teacher or anyone else to decide if it’s reasonable punishment. It’s for the police/CPS/courts to decide.

Child safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility and if anyone sees a child being hit, it should be reported.

I agree. There are two problems here: a complete wet lettuce of a partner. And an abusive grandparent. Any partner who will defend their parents and their gross behaviour and won't take your side and deal with parental-caused disputes is a massive red flag.

The OP should seriously consider ditching this dummy - and seeking legal advice to ensure the kids are never ever exposed to that abusive grandparent ever again. Our most important role as parents is to protect our children from abuse of any kind.

100%

I had the nieces in mind writing that.

You say your DH is frightened of his father, so evidently the torture your DH endured as a child has effected him.

I lived in Germany for a few yrs. I learnt that Germans seem to be quite good at sticking to rules & regulations, maybe even ‘like’ not having to think for themselves?
I suggest Newparent101 that you make a few Laws of your own for FIL to stick to whenever he’s in the vicinity of your DC & children in general. If necessary get your DH to interpret for you to write down & give a copies to the FIL to browse from time to time & make sure he completely understands.

Don't visit or leave your child alone

What kind of man thinks it’s ok to hit little kids? I’d be phoning the police. Disgusting

Or Geh zum Katzen ficken might have an effect on him!