How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

[Newparent101]

Sorry for the long post, seeking your wise advice!

My partner's dad (aged 70) uses smacking as a way to "teach", which I'm totally against. My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline. I just don't agree.

We have our first baby, who's 4 months old. My nieces are 7 and 3, and the grandfather smacks them to "teach" them when they've done something wrong. My sister in law told him she doesn't want him to smack her kids - the grandfather (her father-in-law) stopped speaking to her for a year. Now they have made up, but he smacks her girls again.

I want to find a way to prevent it from ever happening in the first place, and have already told my partner that if his dad (or he) smacks our child I'll immediately take our child away and she won't be seeing her grandfather again.

But of course I want to prevent this ever happening in the first place. I suspect my father-in-law won't listen to me if I state this boundary (given he ignored my sister-in-law for a year and now smacks her girls again). My partner refuses to "lay down the law" with his dad. What's more complicated is his parents don't speak English (they're german) and my german isn't very good.

Anyone have any advice on how to make sure this doesn't happen well ahead of time? Would really like to prevent being in situation where I need to keep our daughter away from him, and also want to ensure that first "smack" never happens. My partner says it's up to me to speak to his dad, but I know his dad won't listen to me. But also struggling to get my partner to acknowledge just how damaging smacking can be (he's also defensive, since of course he was smacked by his dad as a child). My partner and I have had numerous conversations about it already but I can't seem to get through to him.

Thank you so much for the advice and for helping me connect with my anger about it! I think my partner doesn't agree with hitting in principle, but he's a bit of a wet blanket sometimes tbh, and he (and most of the family) is quite intimidated by the grandfather - there's a bit of a tiptoeing behaviour around him.

Definitely if the grandfather ever lays a hand on our daughter he won't be seeing her again, but I'd really like to find a way to ensure that that first hit never happens in the first place either.

But maybe even if (IF, how ridiculous!!) I somehow convince my partner to speak to his dad about it, it's so unlikely to prevent that first hit anyway, that maybe it's not even worth trying and just either
A) prevent grandfather from ever spending time with out child in person? (We live in different countries anyway) - or is that too drastic too soon?, or
B) Wait for the threat of the first hit to then tell the grandfather he won't be seeing her again? (But it seems ridiculous to risk that first hit that I know is very likely coming!)

I've never even seen an adult hit a child before this grandfather, so I think there's an element of shock that's making it hard to see things in a measured way, especially because in other ways he's a "nice" grandfather (plays with her, responsive, etc) so my head is a bit confused about the best way to approach things

I just wouldn't ever leave her alone with him. He won't change.

Jesus, I’m in Scotland and I’m sure it’s illegal to smack a child.
I grew up in the 70’s and can remember, very occasionally, getting smacked. It would never enter my parents mind to have raised their hand to their grandchildren.
Times changed and decent adults move with them

It’s really quite easy to make sure he never hits your child, you never let him near your child when your child is out of your sight. That simple. If he hits your child in front of you then you call the police.

To be honest, I’d call the police if I saw him hit any child. Why are you not reporting it when you see him assault your nieces??

You will simply never be able to leave your kids alone with their grandad, OP.

More worrying is your partner's attitude. It's really unfortunate that you're not on the same page about this. I'm also pretty infuriated that he's not listening to you on this. This is the kind of thing where one team member should not be doing it if the other doesn't want them to, even if they themselves don't see anything wrong with it. By going against you, he's not acting as a team.

Could you send him a bunch of research about negative outcomes from smacking? There is literally not one study that supports it. Presumably your partner wants the best outcome for your kids, so why wouldn't he listen to that?

The GP is another issue. He doesn't care about their outcomes. He just wants to carry on doing what he's always done.

I think it's highly inappropriate for a GP to be meting out any serious discipline to a child, whether physical or not. Issues should be taken to the parents for anything above and beyond the usual "Don't do that, Peter" or "Stop playing with your food and eat your dinner" type thing.

Completely and utterly out of line for a GP to be smacking them.

ETA: If this was my children, I would vow never, ever to leave them alone with him, not for a minute. And I would be seeing them as little as possible. Grandad sounds like a massive bully.

Never let your children be alone with him out of your sight. It’s not that hard to do in reality, it’s only an issue if you let grandparents babysit which is never essential.

Why would he think he's responsible for disciplining his grandchildren?
Presumably there's some male superiority issue going on.It's so sad to read that his other grandchildren have been brought back to a violent situation, that's really now what parenting should be about.

I would just say (in German if necessary) "if you ever hit my child, you will never see them again". Saying it from the gut so he knows you're absolutely serious.

I would also support your SIL to stand up to him if you can. She's grown up being abused so it's no surprise she hasn't been able to stand up effectively for her girls.

And unfortunately I'd keep a close eye on your husband because kids can be trying and it's the go to response he's been raised with. I would be shocked if he gets through all of the difficult stages kids go through without ever raising a hand tbh.

Wenn du jemals die Hand gegen mein Kind erhebst, wirst du es verdammt noch mal nie wiedersehen.

From Google translate.

I think my partner doesn't agree with hitting in principle, but he's a bit of a wet blanket sometimes tbh, and he (and most of the family) is quite intimidated by the grandfather - there's a bit of a tiptoeing behaviour around him.

Yes. You can't rely on your partner to stand up to his father to protect his own small child from harm because hitting children doesn't turn them into strong, values-driven adults but rather teaches them to be afraid of the adult who hit them.

Tell your partner that if he wants his parents to meet your daughter then he needs to find the courage to tell his father that no hitting is an absolutely non-negotiable condition and be willing to take responsibility for enforcing this. Explain that if he's so afraid of his own father that he can't or won't do this then he's telling you that his father isn't a safe person for your DD to be around. And as others have said, stop using the word "smack" and call it (correctly) hitting.

This: grandfather needs to be reported for the assaults he has already committed on the 7 and 3 year old. A visit from the police in gf’s country - the humiliation of the liveried police car parked outside gf’s home, would be a good warning shot - but I would not visit gf anymore until gf showed genuine remorse.
use google translate to ensure your meaning gets across when you explain why you will no longer visit with your little one.
You’re completely right to ENSURE that your little one never gets hit at all.

Hang on... This isn't a man who even lives in the same country as you? Well then to be fair it's a pretty easy issue to navigate, no?

I'd frankly be more concerned about my partner who you no doubt share a house with? And his issue that "it's okay". That's your point of concern. Not grandad in a different country.

OP says that they are German, but she doesn't say that they live in Germany. It sounds more like they live in the UK.

It is illegal in 3 countries of the UK.

It is not specifically illegal in England, as long as it is ‘reasonable punishment’. And you could say that with the SIL letting him see the children, she has ‘given permission’ for him to smack them. So the OP wouldn’t get anywhere calling the police when seeing him smack the nieces.

Only in Wales and Scotland currently?

My DHs grandmother went to hit DD once. I got between them and said if she touches my child she'd never see her again.
I always went when we were visiting but went LC so only saw her a handful of times.
I did feel a bit mean but no way was I risking my child being smacked.

Yes they live in germany, we live between UK and Spain.

Good point, though I don't think my partner would hit her - when he gets extremely stressed he goes into "shut down", never aggressive, but it's a good point that there's a risk he'll replicate the discipline that was given to him, thanks for mentioning.

Also good point about reporting the treatment of my nieces to the police - I'd thought that since the sister-in-law (and husband) know it's happening and clearly have made their peace with it (goodness knows how) then I'd be sticking my nose in it to report to police, and it wouldn't lead to any actual change, but actually that's absurd

OP says he lives in a different country? Which according to Google it's also illegal to smack a child in Germany? Frankly I'd just push it's an antiquated form of discipline. But as it's more likely to crop up with your DH who I'm presuming shares your house?

Then that's where I'd be looking to be concerned about vs grandad in another country.

Sorry, I thought NI too.

Explain before the baby is born that smacking is an outdated form of punishment now and illegal in parts if the UK and that you really appreciate him being understanding of your rule that no one is ever to smack your child…ever. Maybe to be extra clear, point out that what you mean by that is that it will never be ok to hit your child like he does with his other grandchildren.

So the issue isn't really a grandad issue at all is it? How often will you be dropping your child off to be babysat? I'm guessing never...

The actual issue (although you don't want to address it), is that your DH feels that physical punishment is suitable for a child. He received that and "he's okay". And you're actually worried your DH not your DF in law will physically admonish your baby and you just don't want to frame that fear out loud?

You know you can't ignore this, right?

You simply can't have your children in his company if you are not present.

My husband is from a culture where smacking is normalized and was smacked growing up, sometimes with a belt or spoon. We let in laws know we do not smack and my children never have been. Other grandkids get smacked as their parents do it too. It was as easy as my husband saying don’t. In your case my baby would NEVER be left with them
and I’d step in if my child was smacked. Defend your child!! You have a husband problem and I think you know this. It’s assault. If an adult hit my kids I’d be going for them.