How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

[Newparent101]

Sorry for the long post, seeking your wise advice!

My partner's dad (aged 70) uses smacking as a way to "teach", which I'm totally against. My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline. I just don't agree.

We have our first baby, who's 4 months old. My nieces are 7 and 3, and the grandfather smacks them to "teach" them when they've done something wrong. My sister in law told him she doesn't want him to smack her kids - the grandfather (her father-in-law) stopped speaking to her for a year. Now they have made up, but he smacks her girls again.

I want to find a way to prevent it from ever happening in the first place, and have already told my partner that if his dad (or he) smacks our child I'll immediately take our child away and she won't be seeing her grandfather again.

But of course I want to prevent this ever happening in the first place. I suspect my father-in-law won't listen to me if I state this boundary (given he ignored my sister-in-law for a year and now smacks her girls again). My partner refuses to "lay down the law" with his dad. What's more complicated is his parents don't speak English (they're german) and my german isn't very good.

Anyone have any advice on how to make sure this doesn't happen well ahead of time? Would really like to prevent being in situation where I need to keep our daughter away from him, and also want to ensure that first "smack" never happens. My partner says it's up to me to speak to his dad, but I know his dad won't listen to me. But also struggling to get my partner to acknowledge just how damaging smacking can be (he's also defensive, since of course he was smacked by his dad as a child). My partner and I have had numerous conversations about it already but I can't seem to get through to him.

Never leave your children alone with him. Tell him if he lays one finger on your child he will never see that child again. Tell your DP also that if he defends the abuse of your children he will also have to leave your child’s life for their own safety. Don’t accept any of it. It’s abuse. Pure and simple.

Grandad isn't a man who will accept being told what to do, his MO is to use violence and intimidation to make people do what he wants them to do.
This nasty old leopard will not change his spots, he cannot be trusted, keep the children away from him.
I think I'd go around there and have a blazing row with him first just for the fun of it, then again how big is he? Could you take him in a fight?

You cannot stop it happening. You can make clear if he ever smacks your child he will not be seeing them again.

But you need to get your husband on board as a priority. Those are his parents so will be more likely to listen to him that their daughter-in-law.

But this is also a good reason why it is SO important for couples to have counselling before marriage / kids / otherwise long term cohabitation to discuss and agree on important things such as disciplining children.

OP you keep saying “I cannot get through to him” [your partner] but that’s because he simply disagrees with you and won’t agree with you.

I used to live with a guy who refused to accept it was possible to discipline a child without hitting them. Point blank refused.

I am of a different generation younger than the grandparents but I assume much older than yourself. I was smacked as a child as a last resort and I hate to admit it it but my son had the odd smack too. Something which I now realise serves very little purpose.

I would NEVER under any circumstances raise my hand to my grandchild. Partly because I don't think smacking is acceptable but also because they are not my child.

It sounds like your husband is afraid of his dad, maybe he ruled with an iron fist (literally) but he has his own child to protect now and needs to get over whatever it is thats holding him back. If he won't do it I guess you need to. Lay down the law now before it reaches that stage.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about visiting and just waiting for the inevitable first smack before stating the boundary/acting. It kind of seems like knowingly putting your child in danger, unless you think one smack in their life isn't a huge deal. Even if you don't leave DC unsupervised, you would literally have to position yourself between DC and her grandfather at all times to ensure her protection, which doesn't sound realistic. Also, if you'll be on holiday in Germany, will you have the means to remove yourself and DC from the family?

As you've identified your DP as an issue here, I think I'd consider saying to him there will be no more trips to GPs in Germany until he speaks to his dad about no smacking. That waiting for the inevitable first smack is not an option. Then you put the onus on him to act. He may remain passive and never address it, but at least you won't have GP smacking your DC.

I would try and extend him some compassion around his fear of his dad. Not to justify his inaction, or dictate how you protect your child, but so he doesn't feel like he's trapped between two bullies.

It's probably always a good idea to discuss how you will parent, but not because he will necessarily hit your child. Many of us were hit as children and don't hit children now. There are countless approaches to discipline without smacking, that can still vary wildly, so always worth discussing.

Smacking has been illegal in Germany since 2000 and illegal in Spain since 2007. So if he's doing it in either of those places then he is breaking the law. Where are you when you are in the UK? It's illegal in Wales, illegal in Scotland - Northern Ireland and England aren't quite there yet. I would honestly tell him that if he doesn't stop you will (a) not permit him to see the children and (b) report him to the police. I honestly would. But your bigger problem is your DH.

The grandfather needs to be reported to the police for ongoing assault of his grandchildren. I would also have serious concerns about this being learnt behaviour for your DH that he could try with your child. He may be a weed when it comes to his own father but could exert his strength over a tiny child.

Or he could be like many adults who were beaten as children and decide he'd rather cut off his arm than hit his own.

Tell GP straight up that if anyone smacked your child, you would report it to the police and press charges all the way. Remind him that people who go to jail for child abuse tend to do very badly from the other prisoners. And make sure your partner knows you're 100% serious.

You are deluded.

I honestly wouldn’t be able to stomach a visit I don’t think. This is a man who sulked for a year because he wanted to be able to beat his tiny granddaughters and was told he wouldn’t be able to. He likes taking his anger out on kids…not someone I’d want to see myself let alone place my own child in front of.

Previous posters are correct, smacking is both illegal and not a cultural norm in Germany. If your nieces were to mention at school or kindergarten that Opa hits them, their teachers would be obliged to report it.

Your partner needs to be deprogrammed and might benefit from advice in German from one of the many organisations that support families. He can do this anonymously (see the link below), and could ask how to approach this with his dad and go from there. All qualified sources of advice in Germany will share your concerns and back you up.

www.caritas.de/hilfeundberatung/onlineberatung/eltern-familie/start

You or he could also ask how to report the abuse of your nieces anonymously via that link.

The law has recently changed actually and the presumption that it's in the best of interests of children to have contact with both parents has been removed in cases where there has been abuse. Might take some time to be fully implemented in family court but the purpose is to try to stop children being left unsupervised with abusive parents after parents split up.

My ex fil smacked one of my kids when they were young and I told him if he ever laid a finger on my kids again I would smack him a hell of a lot harder and probabably keep hitting him.
As it was I went no contact after he called me a bitch for divorcing my ex who was an alkie. Win win.

Wonder how your ex became so damaged, despite FIL doing such good "discipline".

I would not be allowing my children to be alone with him under any circumstances and even under supervision I would not be keen

I often wondered that. I always stand up for kids, disabled and the elderly.
Would have happily put him in hospital.

You do not need to smack a child to teach them things. That is to put fear in them. You tell him straight that his old fashioned ways are outdated and he doesn't lay a finger on your child. Otherwise you dont allow your child there, I can't believe your partner thinks its ok to hurt your child.

Very very strange - shouting at someone else’s kids would not be ok, let alone smack them.

I had to re evaluate my own childhood and decide what parenting style I wanted - and must admit that when my eldest was younger - smacking was more to do with my own loss of control and wish I could go back and change that.

what could your kids be doing that would warrant a smack from a grandparent?!

is he doing a high level of parenting that he even needs to discipline your child?!
isn’t that the parents role really?

I come from a culture where our generation is intentionally parenting differently, but never can I imagine me being ok with someone else hitting my child really.
doesn’t matter who.

I wouldn't leave my child alone with the grandparents and i'd just immediately leave if I saw them smack the child. If they didn't stop, I'd just cut off the relationship.

Smacking children is illegal in Germany and has been since 2000. Opa should probably be reported to the Jugendamt for having hit your nieces.

This man currently assaults children.

I was going to say the solution is to ensure your child is never in the same room as him without you present, but honestly if someone is that much of a danger to children, I don't think it's appropriate to make your daughter spend time around him at all.

He isn't someone that has done it once and agreed never to do it again, he is currently actively assaulting the nieces. So you don't allow contact until/unless he outright comes to you both saying he will refrain from assaulting your child. If that happens, you can have supervised contact. If it doesn't, well I guess he doesn't get to know your child. Which will be a far greater loss for him than for your kid.

Your child relies on you to protect and care for them, putting them in the path of a grown adult that will happily attack them is not an option.

I'm sickened tbh that you're having a child with a man that things it's okay for a grown adult to assault a small child but seeing as the horse has bolted, you're going to have to protect your child.

Be aware that if anyone professional gets wind of any of this (including that he assaults his granddaughters), e.g. a nurse, doctor, teacher, anyone, they will have to report it to social services. Think carefully about where you go with this.

ETA: you really ought to be reporting his assaults of the nieces to the authorities too. It sounds like there are no adults in their lives willing or capable of stepping up to help them. Are you or your partner professionals? You might well have a duty to report depending on profession if so.

'Reasonable punishment' in the UK only applies to parents. You can't just go around smacking other people's children. If he is still smacking his other grandchildren I think a preemptive conversation would be worth having. Is his English not good?

one of my children has ASD and their attitude and behaviour can sometimes be very challenging.
When my MIL used to visit, she would get visibly annoyed, shake her head, sigh, or make comments that made things worse. It really antagonised the situation.

My husband eventually had a quiet word with her about not getting involved while we were disciplining, because it only made our child react badly to her and escalated their behaviour. She respected what he said and stopped, and she’s since noticed how much her relationship with our child has improved as a result.

Is there any way your DH could speak directly to his dad? Much more direct - that any form of discipline will be from the parents For example, if the child is being rude, fighting, breaking things, not listening ing — anything that needs dealing with — he could raise it with both of you, and then put the boundaries in place. That way, he’s not taking over or escalating things.

If your FIL won’t do that and continues to overstep, I would tell your partner that there can’t be unsupervised contact with Grandad as you’re not prepared to go wait for the first smack!