How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

[Newparent101]

Sorry for the long post, seeking your wise advice!

My partner's dad (aged 70) uses smacking as a way to "teach", which I'm totally against. My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline. I just don't agree.

We have our first baby, who's 4 months old. My nieces are 7 and 3, and the grandfather smacks them to "teach" them when they've done something wrong. My sister in law told him she doesn't want him to smack her kids - the grandfather (her father-in-law) stopped speaking to her for a year. Now they have made up, but he smacks her girls again.

I want to find a way to prevent it from ever happening in the first place, and have already told my partner that if his dad (or he) smacks our child I'll immediately take our child away and she won't be seeing her grandfather again.

But of course I want to prevent this ever happening in the first place. I suspect my father-in-law won't listen to me if I state this boundary (given he ignored my sister-in-law for a year and now smacks her girls again). My partner refuses to "lay down the law" with his dad. What's more complicated is his parents don't speak English (they're german) and my german isn't very good.

Anyone have any advice on how to make sure this doesn't happen well ahead of time? Would really like to prevent being in situation where I need to keep our daughter away from him, and also want to ensure that first "smack" never happens. My partner says it's up to me to speak to his dad, but I know his dad won't listen to me. But also struggling to get my partner to acknowledge just how damaging smacking can be (he's also defensive, since of course he was smacked by his dad as a child). My partner and I have had numerous conversations about it already but I can't seem to get through to him.

The very fact that your DH is such a wet blanket is proof that hitting children is bad for their self-esteem and confidence. Your DH, a grown adult, is scared of his dad. That is effed up.

repeating what others have said - you don’t leave the kids with him / you stay at all times

I would be keeping a close eye on DH and explain that it’s a divorce triggering event also

It seems from your post that they live in Germany, and are not Germans living in Britain (which accounts for not speaking English). They should know, then, that it is illegal in Germany to hit a child. Maybe learn enough German to say if you smack my child I will call the police.

Sounds as though your DP doesn’t know any different because he was disciplined with a slap as a child, so you have two issues; a DP who doesn’t understand that the way he was raised now constitutes abuse and is absolutely unacceptable; and a ‘FiL’ who needs telling that it is now illegal and he will NOT be touching your child if he wants to continue seeing them.

You tell you DP what the law is and that he will be communicating it to your FiL - and/or, you use Google translate to write FiL a letter/text stating that regardless of what he thinks on the matter, he is not allowed to slap or physically chastise your child ever. And if he does so, he will not be allowed alone with her.

In fact: just text him this (courtesy of Google translate):Nur damit wir uns verstehen: Im Vereinigten Königreich ist es illegal, ein Kind körperlich zu züchtigen oder zu schlagen. Es ist mir egal, welche persönlichen Gefühle Sie dazu haben oder wie Sie die eine oder andere Ohrfeige genutzt haben, um Ihre eigenen Kinder zurechtzuweisen, als sie klein waren, aber Sie werden mein Kind nicht antasten, wenn Sie eine Beziehung mit ihm haben möchten. Ich hoffe, Sie verstehen das, denn wenn Sie mein Kind jemals schlagen, werden Sie es nie wieder sehen.I love google sometimes…

OP, I speak German and have looked up a couple of good articles explaining that any form of physical punishment (incl. smacks, spanking etc) are illegal in Germany. The law changed in 2000.

I'd send them to the grandad and flat out say if you see him hit any child every again you're going to phone the police. Maybe send the links to your SIL as well while you're at it.

To be honest if the police came they'd probably just give the grandad a bit of a talking to rather than actually arrest him, but it might at least embarrass him into stopping.

https://www.juraforum.de/news/pruegelstrafe-erlaubt-duerfen-eltern-ihre-kinder-schlagen_247914

https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin/leben/ehe-familie/duerfen-eltern-ihrem-kind-einen-klaps-oder-eine-ohrfeige-geben

Well, if he thinks people learn by being smacked, slap him hard every time his behaviour is outside your boundaries. Lets see how quickly he learns. Absolute prick.

Apart from anything else, they need to respect the way that you choose to discipline your kids. Aside from the fact that smacking is abhorrent, they are also not respecting your chosen methods for raising for your kids.

I wouldn't leave my children alone with him. Easier said than done but I wouldn't.

Where did the smacking of your nieces take place? If it was in Germany, it would be illegal because smacking children is banned in Germany.

Given that your DH is German, I'm very surprised and concerned that he has said that smacking is an effective way to discipline if he was brought up in a country where smacking was illegal.

You need to make it very clear to him that if he allows his dad to smack your child, that would be the end of your marriage.

Is his mother still alive and is she still married to his father? I’d have a chat with her on the phone about how you’d love for them to build a wonderful bond with DC despite the distance. Then set out some boundaries - “we’ve discussed discipline and it’s imperative for us that DC is not smacked, by us or anyone else”. Ask that she passes on the message.

Smacking is illegal throughout the UK. There is a legal defence in England and NI of reasonable chastisement.
How anyone could possibly argue that children that young should be assaulted as reasonable chastisement absolutely escapes me! Yet I am vehemently against any child being assaulted obviously.
I wouldn’t let this man near my child at all.

Would your partner think it's OK for his father to hit his mother? His sister? You?
Why anyone would condone hitting children is beyond me

During short visits, you probably can protect your children from their grandfather. But I'd be more concerned about your partner, TBH

is he hitting them when he's babysitting or in full view of the parents?
is just super use her fully and if you see him hit the nieces tell him "Wenn du jemals mein Kind schlägst, wirst du uns nie wiedersehen."

I doubt it works in reality, I'm afraid

And you can't stop your DH taking your child to see his parents either

It's a horrible position

So you have several options which basically boil down to confronting him or not confronting him.

in other words, you can choose to either

confront him and risk a family fall out
or
don’t confront him and risk him abusing your child.

pretty easy choice, no?

So he was smacking one of your nieces when she was 2? Pretty much a baby. Despicable. I wouldn’t even wait for it to come up, there is no way he’d be left alone with my children.

Falls du mein Kind schlägst, meinem Kind absichtlich Schmerzen zu fügst oder es auf anderweitige Art körperlich bestrafst, werde ich alles in meiner Macht stehende tun, um dich von meinem Kind fernzuhalten.

that would be my suggestion.

DeepL translates this as:
If you hit my child, intentionally cause my child pain, or physically punish them in any other way, I will do everything in my power to keep you away from my child.

Not just the thread, it's in the initial OP.
Massively triggered by this sort of thing (child of the '70's, battered by everyone in my family)
If he assaulted my child, I would assault him.
Advocate for your innocent baby OP 💐

This. Don't ever allow the situation to arise. If they query why, you can tell them you will not facilitate him assaulting his own GC.

Your DH said for you to take control cos he's a wet lettuce. This is how you do it.

it's more I get the impression he's terrified to criticise his dad

That's because he was hit as a child.

Physical punishment creates fear in children and is usually because the person hitting the child is taking their anger out on the child. The child becomes scared of "making" the parent angry. There is no responsibility for the adult to control their temper. Children control their behaviour and grow up fearful.

This is some of the damage done by physical punishment. Does your husband want your child to grow up in fear?

Fortunately, telling his bully father that he is not allowed to hit your child will make your DH feel less scared.

Personally I would never take my child to see a relative who thinks that it's ok to admonish someone else's child by hitting them. He wouldn't get the chance.

It's also one of the most significant reasons I didn't have children. I couldn't run the risk that my children would be hit by my parents.

Simple just don’t leave your children with him.

It’s illegal to smack your child in wales and Scotland so I’d tell him clearly
‘your information is outdated, here are some links to research, you cannot look after our child alone’

tbh vased on what you’ve said I wouldn’t even give him the chance to ever look after your child. I’d work on your partner to see why he doesn’t understand the evidence that smacking shouldn’t be used now- does he deny all knowledge or what’s the reason? Deal with that coz you’ll have loads of things to decide with parenting and presumably you want to use up to date scientific evidence?

This man is a child abuser op. He refuses to see his grandchildren if he isn’t allowed to hit them.

my child would go nowhere near him

If any child tells staff in a British school or childcare setting that their grandparent has hit them, the staff have a legal obligation to report it to Social Services. That'll stay on record and Social Services, if it comes to an investigation, will investigate the parents, too.

I think the only route you have is to be with your daughter 100% of the time.

"Can I hold granddaughter?"
No, because you might hit her and no one is allowed to assault my child.
"I'm teaching her."
You cannot teach my child by hitting her.
"She won't behave."
If you can't get her to behave without hitting, she has to come to me.

Rinse and repeat. I wouldn't give a shit about upsetting a grandfather who wanted to hit my child, or a husband who permitted it.