How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

[Newparent101]

Sorry for the long post, seeking your wise advice!

My partner's dad (aged 70) uses smacking as a way to "teach", which I'm totally against. My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline. I just don't agree.

We have our first baby, who's 4 months old. My nieces are 7 and 3, and the grandfather smacks them to "teach" them when they've done something wrong. My sister in law told him she doesn't want him to smack her kids - the grandfather (her father-in-law) stopped speaking to her for a year. Now they have made up, but he smacks her girls again.

I want to find a way to prevent it from ever happening in the first place, and have already told my partner that if his dad (or he) smacks our child I'll immediately take our child away and she won't be seeing her grandfather again.

But of course I want to prevent this ever happening in the first place. I suspect my father-in-law won't listen to me if I state this boundary (given he ignored my sister-in-law for a year and now smacks her girls again). My partner refuses to "lay down the law" with his dad. What's more complicated is his parents don't speak English (they're german) and my german isn't very good.

Anyone have any advice on how to make sure this doesn't happen well ahead of time? Would really like to prevent being in situation where I need to keep our daughter away from him, and also want to ensure that first "smack" never happens. My partner says it's up to me to speak to his dad, but I know his dad won't listen to me. But also struggling to get my partner to acknowledge just how damaging smacking can be (he's also defensive, since of course he was smacked by his dad as a child). My partner and I have had numerous conversations about it already but I can't seem to get through to him.

I caught my father smacking DS1 once. He was never left alone with him ever again. My parents never babysat and my DC never went to stay with them once in their entire childhood. It pretty much ended any close relationship they might have had. I didn't say anything, as my dad actually is a narcissist and he would have raged and sulked for months. I just orchestrated life so they almost never saw DC. And they were too self-absorbed to notice.

How awful! Your partner needs to get on the same page as you and stand up to his dad. That is a massive red flag that he thinks it's alright. Are there other red flags with him? I assume that was what his upbringing was like? Some therapy to show him the damage it can do might be helpful.

You say his father thankfully stays in another country so I would just keep visits to a minimum and never let her out of your sight in front of his family. Can you stay in a hotel rather than in their home? That would put some distance between your baby the the GF.

I'd be worried about you both splitting up and sharing custody too because then you won't even be able to control what the GF does when you're not around.

1. This post says more about your stupid and neglectful sister in law. The fucking bitch doesn't deserve to be a mother. Her entire life purpose should be to keep those children safe.

1. You live abroad. The answer is simple - you never, ever leave your child in his care. Ever. And try not to divorce your DH, I wouldn't want my kids out of sight with his family.

Good luck proving he's an abusive parent that should have little access to his child, especially if he only starts by smacking him around a few times and there's no real proof. Even the most horrible types of abuse are difficult and lengthy to prove.

I'm a solicitor myself, I spent 6 months in family law and it fundamentally changed my opinion of people and institutions. It's been 9 years and I still think about the horrible parents I came across, especially now I'm a mother myself, and how ineffective the system is really.

Not UK, England and Northern Ireland.

Totally illegal in Wales and Scotland.

I am against corporal punishment of any kind and the German law is against it, too: https://www.polizei-beratung.de/themen-und-tipps/gewalt/kindesmisshandlung/fakten/

See if you can translate it or send it straight to your husband. Your in-laws are in the UK and subject to UK rules. Anyone laying a hand on my child would never see us again.

I don’t know how you’d word it to your in-laws but I’d tell my husband: anyone laying their hands on my child will be met by the police. Fuck around and find out!!

I‘d a quiet word with your sister in law or contemplate reporting your FIL. Outrageous he gets to hit her girls @Newparent101

OMG I would never be leaving my kids there.

Yes, sorry, you're right. But illegal for a grandparent in any UK country.

Yes indeed. I only mention it as so often you see laws in England and Wales bundled together and I this is one of those situations where thankfully it is a devolved issue so we could make the change in law without Westminster.

The thing so many abusive parents / GPs fail to realise is sooner or later that child will become bigger, stronger, more powerful as the child grows up and matures ... and the elder becomes aged and more frail.

I'm convinced that SOME (obviously not all) cases of elder abuse are cases of child abuse turning round to bite.

You already know he WILL do it if given the opportunity. I hate it when the bully in the family has everyone tiptoeing and tolerating bad behavior because they are afraid of what will happen if they stand up for themselves. It's why it continues.

You also already know what will happen if you say anythingbefore, or, God forbid afterhe has hit your child. You saw how it played out with your SIL. This is a bully who needs to be in control.

I don't care that the man is your FIL. If he can't refrain from hitting children, he doesn't get access. I wouldn't take my dog around someone I knew was likely to hit him, let alone my baby!

Your husband needs to man up. He is putting the fear of his father's wrath over his responsibility to his child. Be the parent your deserves and protect her. Don't keep the peace for your husband or FIL at your baby's expense.

I would honestly say that based on how your FIL has treated his other grandchildren, he hasn't earned a relationship with this one.

I think it’s likely he will be more emboldened to stamp his authority on your child op thanks to your sister in law backing down, and falling in line.

Thank you for all the advice. Thanks to you all I finally found my inner mumma anger and told DH that I can't understand how a father would not want to protect his daughter from being hit, and can't believe I've had a child with a man who'd fail to protect her from abuse.

He scoffed and went to bed. I just sent him a load of research articles showing the harms that even "mild" hitting has on kids.

We are supposed to be visiting DH's parents for a week over Christmas. If DH won't see sense about the hitting issue tomorrow I'll tell him that our daughter and I won't be coming, and our daughter won't visit his family again until I'm confident DH will have my back on this.

Honestly don't know what I'd do without you wise mumsnet souls, thank you for helping me see sense about this!

You're having a big fight about a hypothetical future situation? Are you ok?

She's 4 months, she's not going to leave your sight, you are years away from a potential issue.

Seriously, a bit weird to refuse to visit over this. And you will be driving a wedge you can't fix.

It's not really a hypothetical situation though, it's only a matter of time.

And last time we visited the grandparents I tried to keep her in my sight the entire time but the grandfather kept taking her off me and walking with her into the other room so I had to keep following him, or if we went on a walk together he'd push the stroller and walk really far ahead of us, only for me to catch up and half the time she was bawling but he believes "crying will help her develop her voice", and when I asked DH to look after her as I had a shower he'd immediately hand her over to his parents.

Very unlikely DH's parents would hit her at 4 months old, but I don't want to just keep stuck in this situation until that first hit happens, we need some kind of resolution and I need to have DH's back on this if we ever are going to have some positive outcome.

Your problem is with your dh. He thinks it is ok for his father to hit children. He mightn't do it himself - but are you sure about this?

This sucks. I have no idea how you resolve it but I would not have had a child with a man who thinks it is ok to hit children. Why did you? You saw what happened with your sil's children. what did he say to you make you think it would be ok?

With regard to your dh I'd just say to him I've lost all respect for him since he values his father's right to hit children over his child's safety and could he please fuck off and not go near me again.

Seriously. This man thinks it is ok for his father to abuse children because ... he has a daddy complex ... or is weak as fuck .. or thinks it is ok to hit children.

And stop with the smacking thing. it is hitting. Slapping. a small child. horrible people.

Has grandad met your baby yet? I would start from there if he hasn't.

"You will not see this grandchild unless you stop smacking children"

WTF advocate for your child.

I wouldn't knowingly take my child into an environment where there was a chance of ANY child being assaulted. Witnessing adults condoning violence against children (by not intervening) is harmful to a child, even if they don't directly experience the violence themselves.

I had this feeling too. Sounds like he's fixated on it? Wtaf?

My FIL smacked my 2 year old in the garden, he had touched an apple on a tree. It did not go well and he didn’t do it again. He was a nasty man overall and used to mock me over my parenting

You have a DH problem. He'd sooner not protect his child and scoff at you than deal with his dad.

This.
Two red flags - physical abuse and trying to go against your wishes.
Protect your child.

I voted YABU because I just wouldn’t let him see her in the first place if he feels so strongly about crushing your boundaries and beating a child.

Never leave them alone with GP and stay nearby in the same room at all times, or bring DC out the room with you. My dad's (if you can call him that) dad tried to backhand me when I was 9mo, my mum bollocked him and walked out with me, made my dad leave as well.