Would you have said something: feral kids at RSPB sanctuary

[TheWildZebra]

Realise I may get slated for this, but wanted to know what general etiquette was around this sort of thing

last night went to the local RSPB sanctuary in hope of watching the starlings come in to roost and do their murmurations. It is a beautiful , peaceful and awe inspiring thing to see. It happens at sunset.

it’s a 20 minute walk to the viewing platform from the car park between flooded fields and muddy paths. Lots of bird viewing (and listening) opportunities along the way.

from about 10 mins in, I could hear screaming kids about half a km ahead of me. Like proper high pitch playground style. To my horror as I caught up with them, I saw it was 6 kids and 3 parents also on their way (very slowly) to the viewing platform so knew we’d be in for a noisy night. Kids about 7-8 yo.

Anyway, long story short is that the kids were making so much noise on the way there, at the viewing platform and on the way back. peace disturbed for other birders, not least scaring the wildlife we’d come to see (and hear!!)

the parents made no effort to keep the kids within reasonable noise levels. I don’t care if they talk. I care if they scream as if they’re watching fireworks. It seemed so bloody inconsiderate that they’d just let them ruin everyone else’s experience? Kids need to experience nature if we want them to look after if as the next generation. But they also need some boundaries - eg. Alex the owls will fly away if you scream at the top of your voice .

in the future, I know not to go on a weekend, and I’ll take a half day so I can go during the week.

but aibu to think it was just mega inconsiderate and would you have said something (I did not, just stewed and left feeling irritated and not peaceful!)

You're not being unreasonable, but given people often don't stop their kids shouting in restaurants I don't think you've got a hope in hell of them stopping them shouting in the woods.

That's a difficult one- our local RSPB site encourages kids in to play- there's a play area and several other kids friendly activities along the walk. They also do regular treasure hunt trails etc as well as other family events.

My kids are on diagnosis pathways for ASD and ADHD. They are not quiet, but it's not for a lack of telling them to be quieter, that's just how they roll despite our attempts to calm them down. They just dont seem to have a volume control setting. They also LOVE being outside, get a huge amount from it, and the nature-based play stuff at our local RSPB is perfect for us all. The grown ups also enjoy it as being outside does dilute the noise quite a lot!!

We do whizz them through the hide areas quite quickly if they are being too boisterous, but the hides are usually empty so usually they aren't bothering anyone- but they are learning a lot about nature and their bird identification skills are probably better than most adults.

My kids are certainly no worse than the others we see when we are down there.

Personally I'd come down on the side of weekday visits being better if you want quiet- or making sure that you visiting reserves which arent as developed- our second nearest one doesnt have the same level of family facilities and we tend not to visit it as a result.

I’ve been to one exactly as you describe. They had a volunteer at the weekends talking to people, and I would assume to keep an eye on people. Its awful behaviour by the parents.

I know nothing about birds but often take my kids on walks. If there is an expectation of quiet, does the RSPB put signs up to this effect to let people know? If so I’d expect people to be quiet. If not then I wouldn’t.

Hm, I feel for you wasting the trip but we (rightly) expect kids to be quiet and well behaved in so many settings that I've always seen outdoor spaces as the one place they can make noise and let off steam. Unless there was specific signage or instructions from the RSPB to keep noise down I don't think you can expect this.

I never go birdwatching at the weekend where i know children will be, its a hobby that's appreciated in silence and i woukdnt expect children to not talk, There are so many other places to go at weekends to appreciate birds,

Why does there need to be signage in place to notify people that they must be quiet? Surely you can just read the room and make and make sure you and your kids behave accordingly. I don't think the OP was expecting perfect silence but I would be irritated too if some parents let a bunch of screaming kids ruin what is clearly supposed to be a relaxing environment.

Yeah this is it right - I realise that they may have been ND or have other things that makes volume control a challenge. That’s kind of why I didn’t say anything.

But surely it doesn’t take too much to put two and two together that you have creatures that are flight animals (lol birds) and that noise scares them. And if you’re at a bird sanctuary, being noisy isn’t the best strategy to view them…?

im glad your kids love getting out and about though ❤️❤️

That’s it - I want kids to be able to enjoy these spaces and wish more young people had access to them. It’s vitally important for their wellbeing. That said , I also wish more people took public transport but I also have boundaries as to what acceptable behaviour is there lol.

Yeah totally - lesson learned!

the parents made no effort to keep the kids within reasonable noise levels

This is where the answer lies.

One of mine is ND but I still expect him to show respect. We did the Ham Wall starlings a couple of years ago when he was in the age category you mention. He got bored and cold so I know it's not easy but that's part of the work of being a parent - you have to find ways to keep them engaged and to show consideration for the people around them. He loved the starlings in the end and it was a magical night. If the parents were trying you'd have seen them at least try. Pisses me right off because kids like that make people more inclined to judge mine if he's genuinely dysregulated and struggling.

This is where i am these days. I absolutely applaud your parenting. I hate the fact i now tend to lump misbehaved children and poor parenting in with people who genuinely try to deal with a ND child. Its not right but it just feels like poor parents have seen it as an easy out.

Why is it ‘clearly’ supposed to be a relaxing environment? Children are allowed to be children. UNICEF rights of a child. Default is noisy. People telling kids they should be seen and not heard is offensive.

If the RSPB thinks visitors should be quiet then they should advertise it and people should be quiet. I rather suspect they are keener in attracting paying punters than saying they only accept reverentially quiet people though.

I would expect children to be quiet at the main event but not walking there and back. I'm not a bird watcher and wouldn't realise that people would have their eyes and ears open on the way to the main event.

If there was a requirement to be quiet on the way there and back then I would hope a staff member might explain what the expectation was.

I just find the middle class assumption that we’re all supposed to just ‘know’ that it’s starling time and therefore you should just ‘know’ that you have to be quiet and appreciate the beauty so cliquey. It’s grim.

There’s a car park where you can access country walks and no signs. People are going to go for country walks.

We used to tell our kids to be quiet in the woods “so we might see some animals” but really we just wanted some peace and quiet.

Other peoples kids are hell on earth and I’d have been irritated but would have realised there wasn't much I could do about it because it’s the woods.

If the RSPB thinks visitors should be quiet then they should advertise it and people should be quiet. I rather suspect they are keener in attracting paying punters than saying they only accept reverentially quiet people though.

It's not being "reverentially" quiet for goodness sake - people talk, but an RSPB reserve is there to protect wildlife, most specifically birds, and to let people enjoy that environment (and learn about it).
That can all happen with a certain level of noise but if it's at the running around screaming level it won't.
Birds will fly away,animals will hide.
And it isn't fair on the other paying visitors if they are unable to do what they came to do because of inappropriate levels of noise from children. Or adults come to that- I've sat in a hide next to a group of older adults talking loudly and at length about problems in their local church.....

High-pitched screaming is annoying wherever the kids are. I’ve lived next to a primary school for over 30 years and used to love hearing the kids out at playtime, but now there’s so much shrieking!

So many children are stuck living in homes with cardboard walls, tiny gardens (if they have a garden) I think it’s fine for them to make a racket out in the wild.
That said I wouldn’t let them scream near a hide (clue is in the name 😂) if I could see it was in use.
Would children’s noise even bother starlings? They roost in my roof and don’t seem to care at all!

I think there's also an issue/contradiction as the RSPB is doing things which proactively encourage families and children in- they cant do that and then also have silence.

Our local reserve has a challenging path (stepping stones and balancing which detours from the main path), a fairy house walk, a proper play area just over the path from one viewing shelter (this is always fairly loud becuase of the playpark noise but the birds seem to be used to it as they still hang about), a music making area with home made wooden instruments and beating sticks to make noise, pond dipping kits to rent and every time we go down there's a "pay £2 for a treasure hunt trail".

They also have really good large scale bird identifying charts in the hides which also makes it really child/family friendly.

There's an inevitable noise consequence as a result of their efforts!! While my likely ND kids just don't have volume control however often we try to turn down the noise, they certainly aren't usually the loudest there when we visit, so it doesn't ever feel like a quiet and peaceful space. Its just perfect for us and our needs though.

(As I said above, we stick to this reserve rather than going to our next alternative, where there is very little apart from a path and hides- we'll happily leave that one to the serious birders!!)

I just find the middle class assumption that we’re all supposed to just ‘know’ that it’s starling time and therefore you should just ‘know’ that you have to be quiet and appreciate the beauty so cliquey. It’s grim

I find the assumption that it's middle class and cliquey to know about or appreciate birds a bit grim. Working class people can be interested in birds too. (What is working class these days, anyway? A plumber might earn more and live in a bigger house than a white collar worker. Or is it someone who reads the Sun and follows football?)

Disciplining kids is a thing of the distant past. Telling them to pipe down and have some respect ditto. Nowhere and no one is treated with respect anymore. What a mess it all is

I have small children but I hate screaming. Unless there's additional needs involved then there is no need for it.
Noise, chatter, playing fine. Screaming, no.

We once went to a soft play (of course it's not going to be quiet but it was fine) until a dad brought along three of the screetchiest girls I've ever encountered. My own kids asked to leave because it totally spoiled it for everyone.

Just for clarification of understanding here, do you mean they were in the bird hide doing this @TheWildZebra