Would you have said something: feral kids at RSPB sanctuary

[TheWildZebra]

Realise I may get slated for this, but wanted to know what general etiquette was around this sort of thing

last night went to the local RSPB sanctuary in hope of watching the starlings come in to roost and do their murmurations. It is a beautiful , peaceful and awe inspiring thing to see. It happens at sunset.

it’s a 20 minute walk to the viewing platform from the car park between flooded fields and muddy paths. Lots of bird viewing (and listening) opportunities along the way.

from about 10 mins in, I could hear screaming kids about half a km ahead of me. Like proper high pitch playground style. To my horror as I caught up with them, I saw it was 6 kids and 3 parents also on their way (very slowly) to the viewing platform so knew we’d be in for a noisy night. Kids about 7-8 yo.

Anyway, long story short is that the kids were making so much noise on the way there, at the viewing platform and on the way back. peace disturbed for other birders, not least scaring the wildlife we’d come to see (and hear!!)

the parents made no effort to keep the kids within reasonable noise levels. I don’t care if they talk. I care if they scream as if they’re watching fireworks. It seemed so bloody inconsiderate that they’d just let them ruin everyone else’s experience? Kids need to experience nature if we want them to look after if as the next generation. But they also need some boundaries - eg. Alex the owls will fly away if you scream at the top of your voice .

in the future, I know not to go on a weekend, and I’ll take a half day so I can go during the week.

but aibu to think it was just mega inconsiderate and would you have said something (I did not, just stewed and left feeling irritated and not peaceful!)

I absolutely would’ve said something. I am that person. And I hate other people’s kids.

I look back fondly at a world where “they might have ND” wasn’t an excuse for everything. And I say that as someone diagnosed with Asperger’s long before most people knew what it was.
Parent your children, whether they are ND or feral. Children need parenting to be successful adults. Not doing that is failing your offspring.

I completely agree. I can understand now why older people rely on their memories to make them smile. I’m feeling the same way.

Completely agree. There are badly behaved NT kids and badly behaved ND kids. Obviously a very small number of ND kids and adults are so severely affected they would have limited/no comprehension and I’m not including them.

When dd was a toddler I was quite firm about stuff like “you’re not the only pebble on the beach”, talking to her about being considerate of others, etc. And that if she couldn’t behave we would leave. Yes, she had occasional usual toddler meltdowns but 99% of the time was well behaved and certainly by the time she was 3 or 4 she was fine.

So true.

I do not understand parents like this.

I don’t want anyone to look at my child and think they’re awful and feral. My youngest has some very challenging behaviour and I work extra hard when we’re in public.

I don’t want my child to be annoying and I don’t want people to look at them with disdain!

Why are these parents ok with people tutting at their kids (and judging them)? Are they not embarrassed at all?

I think it’s sense of entitlement where they don’t feel the need to consider other people.

I have a child (3) who is very chilled, but I don’t have a problem saying something out loud in front of other parents . I would normally say things to my child like ‘yes but we don’t scream otherwise we scare all the birds away and they’ll get sad’ really loud so that the other parents and child hear. I have told children off who have chased ducks or a cat aggressively in front of me, who are old enough to know better and who’s parents are ignoring their kids bad behaviour. I do usually get a startled look as if no one had ever challenged their behaviour before!
I never confront in an argumentative way but it Normally embarrasses them to act or say something

My autistic DC knows that a hide is a silent place. DP is an avid birder so DC has grown up with silent sandwiches in remote hides. If she'd not been able to manage it, we wouldn't have taken either of the DC.

Keen birdwatchers, many of whom travel far to get to specific viewing spots, deserve a space that's just for them to enjoy their hobby without worrying about rowdy children letting the hide doors bang or talking in the hide. We don't all need access to all spaces in all circumstances. There are woodlands, forest playgrounds, nature trails and open farms where we can let our DC 'be children', connect with the outdoors and enjoy the developmental benefits of running wild in suitable environments. Spaces which are dedicated to the conservation and study of wildlife in the wild are generally better for not being noisy.

I would have said something, very nicely.

We love going to places like this and always encourage the kids to be quieter and use hushed voices when in th hides and if people are clearly spotting with binoculars. If they start to get a bit loud we move on. Sometimes there’s play areas so we use those to burn off steam before and after. We also let them be louder and explore in the woodland where there’s less people bird spotting.

I think there’s a balance as we want to encourage young people into nature. But they also need to understand that nature needs protecting and not scaring off. I wouldn’t let them continue to scream. If they were suddenly noisy (winding each other up or shorting to get attention) we’d remind them and then like I said, move on if it’s hard to be quiet!

I do know that some people with SEND etc do find this hard so I’m not including them.

Parks Canada say 'call out' so maybe canadian bears are deaf. Considering areas of Canada have many times as many bears is part of that.

I think it’s reasonable to assume that people visiting an RSPB reserve have some clue what’s going on there and you behave in a way that is respectful of the wildlife that live there.

DD’s boyfriend is Canadian and says he’s never seen a bear which disappoints me greatly. Every time I see him I want to know if he’s seen one yet. In my mind in Canada they’re as common as pigeons are in Manchester.

Not at all. That's a pretty dismissive comment to make.

Common sense and intelligence are not the same thing at all. Also, neurodivergence can mean you don't always connect facts in the same way that others seem to easily do. Although, of course, you don't have to be ND to be like this - but if you are, it's more likely.

As I said in my previous comment, I've certainly made plenty of faux pas in my life because I've failed to connect different things that should have been obvious but weren't to me. Despite what you may think, I'm certainly not dim.

If you're walking along a path thinking about seeing the starlings and the murmuration at the end, if you're not an avid birdwatcher, it's entirely conceivable that you're not thinking about all the little birds you might see along the way. You're just thinking about the end point.

I have a relative - also ND - who seems to think that if she can't see a person, they can't hear her. When I've taken them to hospital, we've had to do lots of urgent shushing because as soon as the curtain is drawn, they start speaking as if the doctor can't hear them!

All I'm saying is that signs along the path clear up any ambiguity, especially for visitors who don't frequent nature reserves regularly. They might have been fully intending to be quiet in the hide at the end, and just not realised that you need to be quiet on the path too.

A Nature Reserve is a place reserved for nature. People go there to experience and enjoy the nature that lives there. It’s very different from a park, woods and countryside in general.

No adult should need a pseudo-parent telling them what to do, in order to do basic adulting. The RSPB is not your mum. They shouldn’t need to say ‘indoor voices for the birds’, because you are an adult who knows you are visiting a nature reserve. If you enter a bird hide, you’re there to watch birds. Without disturbing them is implied so hard it doesn’t need saying.

Dig-owners though…

ah ha ha ha ha

Ahhhhhh - dog owners! Ffs

Point being of course that dogs that chase, terrorise and sometimes kill wildlife are a much bigger problem than over-enthusiastic children.

I can completely appreciate this argument if it were just one or maybe two people, but the fact that there were several adults and children, unless they were all ND I just think these folks were either inconsiderate or rather dim/ lacking imagination as to what else one might see at a bird reserve apart from the end destination.

I hope you do! Let us know how it was.

If anything has come from this thread, then I hope it’s inspiring others to check out their local birdlife and love it too ❤️

Absolute rubbish.

You know what the first thing a parent who cant control their feral child will say to you....."Who do you think you are approaching my young child" Then they would probably announce you to all who can hear as some kind of paedophile.

Please just stop with this softly softly, making excuses and putting up with this crap. Thankfully society is starting to realise that you need to stand up to these people or nothing will change other than it gets worse.

FGS talking to the feral children. They will just laugh at you

The initial issue discussed wasn’t chasing or cruelty it was children playing at a volume that an individual perceived as being too loud for the circumstances.
Children described as “feral”, many posts claiming that parents are failing and general hostility to children on a platform for mothers.
Hardly inspiring but heavy on hatred.

Go near a bird, a cat, even a dog and start screeching. 99% of the time the animal will scarper. The other 1% is the dog attacking you.

It is common sense that around animals, if you actually want to see them you keep quiet.

Stop making excuses for these idiots with feral kids

But surely without a sign telling you explicitly not to screech how are you supposed to know that if you are not an expert on birds, cats or dogs?

This is surely a pisstake. Please let it be a pisstake. Society cant be that stupid

I am sick of poor parenting

I will place signage up next time I post so you know that I am taking the piss 😂

I look on MN to see what people are currently thinking...my children are grown up now.

I hope to God that this kind of attitude is ONLY found on MN. Crazy, bonkers stuff. Always ready to excuse any kind of anti-social or inconsiderate behaviour.

It's a parent's/adult's job to teach children appropriate behaviour in a variety of contexts. If you don't do this, or don't agree that children should ever be constrained by rules, conventions, consideration for others - you do you, but no-one else will like your children. You'll be doing them a huge disservice.

Of course I blame parents for raucous, rude and inconsiderate children, but I still dislike the children.