Would you have said something: feral kids at RSPB sanctuary

[TheWildZebra]

Realise I may get slated for this, but wanted to know what general etiquette was around this sort of thing

last night went to the local RSPB sanctuary in hope of watching the starlings come in to roost and do their murmurations. It is a beautiful , peaceful and awe inspiring thing to see. It happens at sunset.

it’s a 20 minute walk to the viewing platform from the car park between flooded fields and muddy paths. Lots of bird viewing (and listening) opportunities along the way.

from about 10 mins in, I could hear screaming kids about half a km ahead of me. Like proper high pitch playground style. To my horror as I caught up with them, I saw it was 6 kids and 3 parents also on their way (very slowly) to the viewing platform so knew we’d be in for a noisy night. Kids about 7-8 yo.

Anyway, long story short is that the kids were making so much noise on the way there, at the viewing platform and on the way back. peace disturbed for other birders, not least scaring the wildlife we’d come to see (and hear!!)

the parents made no effort to keep the kids within reasonable noise levels. I don’t care if they talk. I care if they scream as if they’re watching fireworks. It seemed so bloody inconsiderate that they’d just let them ruin everyone else’s experience? Kids need to experience nature if we want them to look after if as the next generation. But they also need some boundaries - eg. Alex the owls will fly away if you scream at the top of your voice .

in the future, I know not to go on a weekend, and I’ll take a half day so I can go during the week.

but aibu to think it was just mega inconsiderate and would you have said something (I did not, just stewed and left feeling irritated and not peaceful!)

I would have said something. I don't understand what's happened to lead people who have paid good money for tickets to behave like this. Isn't it blindingly obvious that you can natter away to your heart's content in your own home, in a coffee shop, on a walk etc etc but when you are watching and listening to performers as part of a live audience you respect the performers and your fellow audience members by keeping quiet?

It’s an amazing sight.

I'm a birdwatcher and have spent many, many happy hours in hides where you daren't even unwrap your sandwich because you inadvertently used silver foil which is way too noisy 😂

I'm ND and I have two DC with additional needs (I don't go birdwatching with them!).

What I would say is that sometimes things that are obvious to some aren't always obvious to everyone. Frequently in life (not birdwatching situations) I realise I've appeared to act thoughtlessly and been mortified, and it's just because I didn't join the dots.

I don't think you need to be ND to sometimes miss the wider picture, or to have insufficient experience/knowledge to realise what you might be doing wrong.

I think it's entirely feasible that people didn't think about the noise on the way up to the hide. We all know that you have to be quiet IN the hides, but maybe they simply didn't think/realise? I would say signs from RSPB reminding people to stay quiet while they are walking would be really helpful. It also means if anyone is being noisy you can justifiably point it out.

Clear expectations help everyone.

I hope you get back to see the murmuration sometime soon OP, it's a wonderful sight!

@Ralphiethedog

Indeed. Just googled. Might check out a visitor centre this weekend.

For us one of the reasons we go to our (family friendly) local RSPB is becuase both of our likely ND children are flight risks. As well as being loud by nature, they both just run off, and no amount of explaining why this is not a good idea is enough to override their lack of impulse control.

The RSPB place has a nice long path that only goes to one place- we know exactly where they will be. Places like parks tend to have lots of paths which go in different directions. The kids are guaranteed to bolt in opposite directions, and it becomes a horrendous outing, especially if there's only adult. For us it's one of the few places where we can take them and have an outing which is fairly relaxed for all of us.

People are just pigs these days

Agreed. Wild camping is a problem at times on the island where my mother lives. Some campers leave the tent and all their rubbish behind when they go home. Appalling behaviour.

So what if the kids are stuck in 4 walls and this was their only outing for the weekend there is no need for them to be shrieking and screaming at the top of their lungs

Not everyone but there is a huge tendency towards poor parenting and the outcome is feral children.

Parents need to start parenting. Its not a popularity contest.

parents will do anything but chastise their children it seems.

That's down to the parents not wanting to have to deal with their DC's incoming sulking/temper tantrums moods.

As long as their DC are annoying others and not them all's fine in their world.
Unfortunately they're a growing breed.

This reminds me when my brother set off a wooden pop gun in a bird sanctuary national trust site many years ago. 😂

He must have only been 5 and know I shouldn’t laugh but it always tickled me.

I see murmurations local to me quite often (I live near a nature area). They are lovely to watch from the comfort of my own garden.

I once got caught under one which was not such a nice experience. Once i realised what the noises were i had to run and hide from the bird droppings.

It depends how you speak to them. If your tone is sarcastic or bossy, yes they may feel patronised and you might get their backs up. But if you speak kindly to the children in a way that implies you’re trying to share your enthusiasm / help them get the most out of their trip, then in my experience you get them onside.

Be the change you want to see. We want more children enjoying nature, yes? We want those children to be quiet, for the benefit of the wildlife, us, and the children themselves, yes? They are the custodians of the future; they will grow up to be policy makers, teachers, voters, campaigners, parents, dare I say it - influencers. Whether we like it or not.

It is in all of our interests to take a moment, step out of our comfort zone and engage them.

Lucky you! It must have felt magical, apart from the droppings of course. 😁

This is part of the problem. Why on earth should someone have to request in a certain manner for someone to control their children?

I am sorry but if it has got to the point someone needs to ask someone to control their childrens volume, the childrens parents have failed. Why should anyone have to worry about getting someone back up for basic parenting skills.

This is why society behaviour is reducing. Its because the people who are lacking in parenting skills are more than likely the kind who will resort to violence or a slanging match when their behavior is pointed out to them.

We all know that you have to be quiet IN the hides, but maybe they simply didn't think/realise?
You'd have to be pretty dim not to realise.

We were at a Scottish zoo over half term and there were some small children there (5-7 years old) that were doing whatever they liked. We were sat outside eating lunch and one ran up to another table and was jumping up and down on it. Lots of other behaviour too that just wasn’t ok. Parents didn’t challenge, intervene or seem particularly interested.

id never say anything, I also try not to judge because I have no idea what is going on in other families.

in terms of a bird reserve, it’s not a library but also it’s not a playground. I’d hope that parents would make an attempt to explain what’s socially acceptable and that screaming repeatedly isn’t.

My child is feral so I wouldn't take him somewhere like this yanbu.

You’re not suggesting they control their children, nor are you pointing out their behaviour. You’re engaging with the children, not the parents, in a child friendly way, in order to get the result you want - quiet children who understand quiet = see wildlife.

I think part of the problem with society now is that adults don’t get involved correcting the behaviour of other people’s kids. There have always been ‘feral’ children and bad parents. When I was a child, if Darren from Hammond Crescent was trying to break the swings or write a rude word on the bus stop, Betty from number 23 would appear and tell him not to. Nowadays people don’t want to get involved - and yes, that’s because in a lot of situations that might get you stabbed, or whatever. I understand that.

But this is in a bird reserve. Screechy children who’ve been taken for a walk in a nature reserve aren’t going to stab you. And whilst it might be momentarily more satisfying to snap “STFU you feral little shit,” you’re more likely to get the result you want - quiet children- by engaging with them and explaining why it would be better to be quiet.

Yes their parents should be doing it. But they’re not. So you can tut and feel angry about the state of society, and nothing will change, OR you can try to address the situation in a way that’s constructive. Up to you.

Whilst I see your point @VenusClapTrap I’m with the OP in that I’d be more wary of the feral parents. The world has changed.

Maybe Canadian bears are deafer than Californian bears, I was only ever told to sing and talk loudly. No shouting. Certainly no need for being so loud that other people can hear you from half a mile away. I think generally bears have good hearing so as long as you’re not silent and come round a corner and surprise them you should be ok.

Neuro diverse or not an RSPB reserve is not the place to let children run wild in areas where they are not meant too.
The vast majority of people visit these reserves to bird watch and anyone with an iota of common sense surely knows that noise, movement and birds don’t go together at all.
In my view an RSPB bird sanctuary shouldn’t need to waste its money producing and displaying signs asking visitors to be respectful of the bird life and other visitors.
I have a lovely RSPB bird reserve virtually on my door step and whenever I’ve visited with a birdwatching relative I’ve been almost afraid to cough in the bird hides. I can say with 99.9% certainty that had this particular family been visiting here their behaviour quite rightly wouldn’t have gone unchecked.
There are far more places for parents to take their children to play than there are bird reserves and if they choose to visit a reserve they should be prepared to keep their children’s behaviour in check so as not to spoil it for those there in the hope of seeing birds, ducks etc they would not be able to see elsewhere.
Apologies for sounding like an angry old man but whatever way you look at it behaviour like the OP witnessed is unacceptable and all the more so as this particular sanctuary has a play area where children can run off their excess energy.

My autistic dd (and myself, auhd) can’t cope with loud noise and would hate to hear other people screaming regardless of birds. I’d be very overwhelmed. Why do people think autistic people are all running around screaming? So far from the truth!

It’s an excuse that’s used a lot unfortunately and to many parents on this thread who parent their ND children, it’s offensive. .