Would you have said something: feral kids at RSPB sanctuary

[TheWildZebra]

Realise I may get slated for this, but wanted to know what general etiquette was around this sort of thing

last night went to the local RSPB sanctuary in hope of watching the starlings come in to roost and do their murmurations. It is a beautiful , peaceful and awe inspiring thing to see. It happens at sunset.

it’s a 20 minute walk to the viewing platform from the car park between flooded fields and muddy paths. Lots of bird viewing (and listening) opportunities along the way.

from about 10 mins in, I could hear screaming kids about half a km ahead of me. Like proper high pitch playground style. To my horror as I caught up with them, I saw it was 6 kids and 3 parents also on their way (very slowly) to the viewing platform so knew we’d be in for a noisy night. Kids about 7-8 yo.

Anyway, long story short is that the kids were making so much noise on the way there, at the viewing platform and on the way back. peace disturbed for other birders, not least scaring the wildlife we’d come to see (and hear!!)

the parents made no effort to keep the kids within reasonable noise levels. I don’t care if they talk. I care if they scream as if they’re watching fireworks. It seemed so bloody inconsiderate that they’d just let them ruin everyone else’s experience? Kids need to experience nature if we want them to look after if as the next generation. But they also need some boundaries - eg. Alex the owls will fly away if you scream at the top of your voice .

in the future, I know not to go on a weekend, and I’ll take a half day so I can go during the week.

but aibu to think it was just mega inconsiderate and would you have said something (I did not, just stewed and left feeling irritated and not peaceful!)

No, I stand by it. It doesn't make any sense to think that you have to be quiet in a hide but you can play a fucking one-man band on the paths in between the hides.
As for ND, if you have a neurodivergent child you need to look out for them and stop them making mistakes caused/exacerbated by their neurodivergence.

Wow the excuses here are amazing. A bird watching place is really not the place to take boisterous kids and let them run riot, neurodiverse or not!
I have two boys and when they were that age, we sometimes met up with friends who had 3 boys. We all knew that them all together would mostly be noisy and carnage and would not in a million years take them to a place like that. We would go to an outdoors adventure playground or something more appropriate and even there would remind them to not be too noisy or be mindful of other smaller children. Yes kids will be noisy but as parents we can remind them to be mindful of their voices.

YANBU As a non-driver I manage to get to a similar place (probably the same place!) once every couple of years to watch a murmuration, and there’s often a bit of a crowd, including families who manage to stay fairly quiet (you can at least see they’re making the effort!), as it’s really obvious that the experience is better for everyone if no one is running riot. I’d be really pissed off if my trip was ruined by screaming kids with no attempt from parents to control. The time and location and other people’s behaviour all make it pretty evident that it’s not appropriate to scream

Hear, hear!

Why in the name of God would you want to screech in the first place? Screeching is not a socially acceptable behaviour option in public places.

I might not have been entirely serious with this post.

I have such low expectations that humour sometimes goes right over my head. Thanks for that

My faith in humanity is restored!😀

That’s fine. We can agree to disagree.

I’m not suggesting children should be allowed to screech.

I’m telling you that as a ND person myself, it’s easy to make these kinds of mistakes and then be mortified when you find out.

I am an intelligent woman who occasionally makes absolutely absurd howlers because I don’t join the dots in a way that others find easy or obvious.

Just because you think it’s obvious doesn’t mean other people will. You can protest all you want but that’s a fact.

Maybe the parents in this examples were just rude and didn’t care. Maybe they didn’t think. Perhaps they misunderstood. Who knows?!

I’m saying signage would be helpful because it would prevent accidental or thoughtless misunderstandings.

We’re obviously not going to agree on this so 🤷‍♀️

What I’m saying is maybe they were thinking about the murmuration at the far end of the path.

If they’re not birders they might have been solely there for that and not considering the fact that there’s other birds along the way.

There’s a WWF nature reserve near me. It’s very child-friendly; has an education centre, water splash area for wellies, places to feed the birds. But then there are several hides dotted around, many at the end of long paths. There’s clear signage on the paths that you now need to be quiet. It really helps focus people as they move from loud play areas to dedicated wildlife zones. We almost never see noisy children or rowdy adults in the quiet areas despite the fact there’s a huge amount of children who go to this place. The signs work.

Everyone knows you need to be quiet in hides. Not everyone realises that you need to be quiet on the full approach up to it as well.

I have seen families sit and be reverentially quiet in a big lake hide at this nature reserve near me. The lake hide doesn’t have a long path nor signs saying to be quiet outside. It’s quite close to the education centre and it has low, wide windows that are perfect for kids. These families sit in silence, tiptoe out with their children. Then once outside they make a big noise clattering about with putting up their pushchair and chatting where to go next 🤦🏻‍♀️

It happens. Signs help focus people and prevent the whole “out of sight, out of mind” thing.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t be quiet nor teach their children to behave. But misunderstandings can and do happen.

These families sit in silence, tiptoe out with their children. Then once outside they make a big noise clattering about with putting up their pushchair and chatting where to go next
That's not a 'misunderstanding', it's people needing to engage their brains.

It's not as though anyone is expecting silence and I'm sorry but letting your kids scream is shitty no matter where you are. Kids can have fun without fucking screaming like a banshee

My ND grandchildrenlove birds. They have lists of things they have seen and they are amazing at recognising bird features. But they struggle not to 'squeal and flap' when they see something new or different. It is hard.

Just back from an art gallery and had to put up with crying babies and screeching toddlers. Is nowhere safe? Bring back the Child Catcher!

We go to nature reserves all the time, but the only bird sanctuary we’ve been to is at a provincial park (Canada) and there was no special bird viewing area and no one around. Maybe we terrified the birds? Based on this thread I’ll ask at the front gate next time we go.

A lot of places we go to will have signs closing off areas during mating season or to be quiet during x season. But no. I have not been anywhere like the OP. If it discusses etiquette on the website or any signs I’d know. If I came across someone serious I’d quieten the kids.

But what do you think would help the birds and bird watchers more/generate future bird watchers - a few signs, or being mad at parents who have never tried it?

There is a growing number of parents who see every space as somewhere where they can take their children without perhaps asking if they should. There are several pubs near me, most have tilted their business model towards catering for families with kids menus, colouring in sheets, adventure playgrounds in the back garden, staff experienced with dealing with kids etc. Good for them, it seems to be working well. I don't go there as I don't want to be surrounded by excited kids, crying new borns or listen to the soundtrack of Frozen on endless loop. There is also an 'old man pub' near me, it is a lovely cosy yea oldie place with wonky stone floors, low ceilings, open fire places, no fruit machines or background music, just a relaxed venue with an excellent wine list where you can go and catch up with friends and just chill out. But no, increasingly some parents want to plant a flag in that pub as well despite the numerous kid friendly options literally 2 minutes down the road, they honestly can't read the room and see what a massive change of atmosphere they initiate when they barrel in with their noisy family. Just leave my local alone. Grrrrrrrr

As a parent I’d have appreciated it! I’m also one of the must be a complete idiot people here who think signs would help. AKA happy to follow rules.

@Ralphiethedog "I know nothing about birds but often take my kids on walks. If there is an expectation of quiet, does the RSPB put signs up to this effect to let people know? If so I’d expect people to be quiet. If not then I wouldn’t."

Which pretty much exemplifies modern society. Do we really need signage and spoon feeding every step of the way? Do we really need it in writing to stop doing something that annoys the fuck out of everyone else or that might actually scare the living crap out of the very wildlife we're supposed to be watching? What happened to using your own common sense. I'm so grateful to my kind, intelligent and considerate parents that taught me to respect wildlife and to act appropriately in different settings. I don't think future generations will have the first bloody clue about anything, other their own desire to do whatever they want whenever they want.

I agree

Unless they where disturbing the wildlife then they don’t need to be quiet , it’s a reserve not a library

You would have been well within your rights to point out that a bird sanctuary is supposed to be peaceful for the birds and could the children respect this. However, you are taking a risk of being berated by the parents for interference. If there are any wardens at the site the best course of action is to report the group to them and let the warden deal with it.

It’s as if they’re going around in some self worshipping state, ffs.

Why does the RSPB have to tell you, and others, to be quiet in natural surroundings? It should be the default.

My expectations are low too 😀 and @ChamonixMountainBum it’s a frightening prospect that one of our ever decreasing band might go rogue!

This. At least try. It may still be noisy and disruptive, especially for the starlings, but try.