Would you have said something: feral kids at RSPB sanctuary

[TheWildZebra]

Realise I may get slated for this, but wanted to know what general etiquette was around this sort of thing

last night went to the local RSPB sanctuary in hope of watching the starlings come in to roost and do their murmurations. It is a beautiful , peaceful and awe inspiring thing to see. It happens at sunset.

it’s a 20 minute walk to the viewing platform from the car park between flooded fields and muddy paths. Lots of bird viewing (and listening) opportunities along the way.

from about 10 mins in, I could hear screaming kids about half a km ahead of me. Like proper high pitch playground style. To my horror as I caught up with them, I saw it was 6 kids and 3 parents also on their way (very slowly) to the viewing platform so knew we’d be in for a noisy night. Kids about 7-8 yo.

Anyway, long story short is that the kids were making so much noise on the way there, at the viewing platform and on the way back. peace disturbed for other birders, not least scaring the wildlife we’d come to see (and hear!!)

the parents made no effort to keep the kids within reasonable noise levels. I don’t care if they talk. I care if they scream as if they’re watching fireworks. It seemed so bloody inconsiderate that they’d just let them ruin everyone else’s experience? Kids need to experience nature if we want them to look after if as the next generation. But they also need some boundaries - eg. Alex the owls will fly away if you scream at the top of your voice .

in the future, I know not to go on a weekend, and I’ll take a half day so I can go during the week.

but aibu to think it was just mega inconsiderate and would you have said something (I did not, just stewed and left feeling irritated and not peaceful!)

Hi, the bird hide is quite small, and to accommodate people there is a standing area outside where they were doing this.

It seems such signs are needed because some parents are idiots who are unwilling or unable to parent appropriately.

No I don’t think the starlings were bothered but there was plenty of other wildlife besides. Like I said, part of the experience is to listen to the birds. Theres a bittern you can hear there this time of year (if you’re quiet enough). You can usually hear the owls as well. Lots happening when the sun is setting.

If you’ve turned up to go for a walk in the mud at 3:30 when the suns setting at 4:00 and are following the signs to the starlings, then I would take it to mean you know it’s starling time.

it’s not a middle class thing to connect dots and consider what it appropriate in different environments.

This.

My two are similar, though more sensible than they used to be at 13 and 11.
They are able to be quiet for a limited time actually inside a hide - they understand it's an extra quiet space, and use a toned-down inside voice (TBF their inside voices are often quite loud, especially DS).

I wonder if the children would have been better behaved in an obviously quiet space (a hide, everyone whispering) than an outside space (viewing platform).

From your POV you might be better going inside a hide yourself next time.

It’s the assumed knowledge though isn’t it? The “oh my goodness there were riff raff there who knew nothing about the glory of a bittern’s call” pearl clutching. You could so insufferably smug!

If it is a reserve like Ham Wall, you don't have to pay to get in, so it is not a question of prioritising 'paying punters'. It is about respecting wildlife: people go there specifically to see the starlings coming in to roost at sunset, and obviously the birds would be disturbed by extremely noisy people of whatever age. This is not a wildlife park with playgrounds etc, it is paths between reed beds where there are a huge number of birds, some of which are threatened species.

If I went with children to see the murmuration phenomenon, I would do my best to keep them quiet and respect the environment, and only take them (whether NT or ND) if I thought they would actually appreciate the experience of watching quietly while the birds do their thing.

Does it really need explaining that wild animals generally don't react well to loud noises? That if you, or others, actually want to see and appreciate said wild animals in a sanctuary in their natural habitat there is an onus on keeping the noise level to a minimum?

"UNICEF rights of a child" - good grief 😂

Are you outing yourself as not having experienced hitherto the glory of the bittern? Tut tut a life half lived.

UNICEF has laid out the rights of children to scream continuously and in a high pitch around wildlife?

I’m sorry you are taking this way too personally.

I am assuming knowledge because the knowledge was evidently there that starlings could be seen in that precise place at that precise time. Otherwise that’s some serious happenstance.

It feels to me that you’re trying to argue your way out of people having accountability for their own behaviour. The argument of “well I didn’t know” doesn’t really wash for me here, sorry!

also, bitterns are fucking cool. A conservation marvel. Maybe you can find a place they are living near you and enjoy them too.

Yes it’s exactly like this. No playgrounds. No loos. Just a car park in the middle of nowhere and muddy paths between reed beds. You have to go there for the birds not anything else.

I used to lead guided walks through woods in one of my jobs and I had a noisy group of children once. I was always very good humoured and jolly, but I had to titter when a child from this noisy lot asked me 'How many animals do you think we'll see today?' Absolutely bloody zero unless you all pipe down!! (I didn't say that, obvs, but I thought it).

It should be obvious to the adults, at least, and they should teach their children that wild creatures are easily frightened and if they want to see birds or any other animals they need to be very quiet and unobtrusive. Surely, surely adults know this? Don't they? OMG - where has education gone wrong?

And also - consideration for other visitors. I would have thought both these points were bleeding obvious...

@TheWildZebra Isn't it terrible that you fear you might be "slated" for feeling upset and annoyed about this.

Have we now reached a stage where it is unacceptable to criticise and reprimand noisy and inconsiderate children-and , in this case,-their parents.

Until we get a handle on this as society and accept that children have to be told how to behave and will have consequences if not, then we are really mixing ourselves a bottle for the future.

The tail shouldn't wag the dog but as a single adult, it is sometimes hard to take these buggers on, especially when bystanders react either by tutting at you or looking at the ground.

There does need to be a shift in attitudes so that these groups know that they will no longer be able to bully others into accepting their feral ways.

I am imaging there will be posters who may suggest these children have ASD, ADHD, PDA, ODA or some other variation but, even if that is true, their needs don't trump the rights of others.

Maybe it's about time, the word, "naughty" was brought back into fashion.

You sound deranged.

Why shouldn't quiet be the default?

Pop this poster up in the car park.

I would certainly have Said Something. What a shame your birdwatching was ruined.

I once saw a child chasing ducks with a stick, stamping, howling and yelling. His. parent was oblivious, messing on his phone. I can't abide that type of cruel behaviour.

I asked loudly what on earth child thought he was doing. Stopped immediately and both adult and child looked suitably chastened. This isn't done often enough in my opinion.

Omg totally should!! Love it!

If only!

Well done you. I always worry the adult will be as feral as the child.

And agree, loud should NOT be the default.

DD is quiet now. But at 5, she wasn’t. ADHD (diagnosed) and a general loud personality.

We had downstairs neighbours at the time, and she’s young in her school year. So she had to be quiet at home, school, restaurants, public transport, shops. And I spent my whole life shushing her. And just to give context, children with ADHD hear about 10,000 more negative comments about themselves before they grow.

The outdoors was the one place she could be herself, and not shushed. Now, it’s a bird sanctuary so I wouldn’t have gone at that age. But I can see why they did. The exact people who used to tut and stare at DD on the beach and downs, same tutting people who go on about screen time and children being lazy and fat.

Children have to be children somewhere. And outside is normally the only place. If you have a house, not a flat, feel very lucky.

There are lots and lots of outside spaces that are not specifically for wildlife watching though. Ie where people need to be quiet.

Plus it sounds as though the parents didn’t even attempt to manage the situation which makes me think it’s entirely lack of standards rather than SN.