Would you have said something: feral kids at RSPB sanctuary

[TheWildZebra]

Realise I may get slated for this, but wanted to know what general etiquette was around this sort of thing

last night went to the local RSPB sanctuary in hope of watching the starlings come in to roost and do their murmurations. It is a beautiful , peaceful and awe inspiring thing to see. It happens at sunset.

it’s a 20 minute walk to the viewing platform from the car park between flooded fields and muddy paths. Lots of bird viewing (and listening) opportunities along the way.

from about 10 mins in, I could hear screaming kids about half a km ahead of me. Like proper high pitch playground style. To my horror as I caught up with them, I saw it was 6 kids and 3 parents also on their way (very slowly) to the viewing platform so knew we’d be in for a noisy night. Kids about 7-8 yo.

Anyway, long story short is that the kids were making so much noise on the way there, at the viewing platform and on the way back. peace disturbed for other birders, not least scaring the wildlife we’d come to see (and hear!!)

the parents made no effort to keep the kids within reasonable noise levels. I don’t care if they talk. I care if they scream as if they’re watching fireworks. It seemed so bloody inconsiderate that they’d just let them ruin everyone else’s experience? Kids need to experience nature if we want them to look after if as the next generation. But they also need some boundaries - eg. Alex the owls will fly away if you scream at the top of your voice .

in the future, I know not to go on a weekend, and I’ll take a half day so I can go during the week.

but aibu to think it was just mega inconsiderate and would you have said something (I did not, just stewed and left feeling irritated and not peaceful!)

YANBU and I'd have said something along the lines what you suggest they should say to their kids: 'Can you be mindful of noise levels please – the birds are scared of loud voices/screaming.'

I'd be fully prepared to get a mouthful back though. Some parents seem to think it's fine to let kids disturb birds (also thinking ofd those who allow/encourage their kids to chase pigeons or waterbirds in parks).

I was one of 3 children. We were all noisy, hyperactive and up to mischief at every given opportunity. I never ever heard us create the kind of noise i hear from children these days and i know how quickly my parents would have put a stop to it. Bird sanctuary or not we were taught to behave if told.

Its not just restricted to ND children (that i can understand), its all the feral children whose parents sit looking at the phone whilst their children play. The children are turning the volume upto 11 to get their parents to actually give them some attention.

I call it performance play. It is not normal and it is poor parenting.

I don’t know, but I expect to see parents making a modicum of effort trying to manage their behaviour.

I'm from sound working class (although fairly rural) roots and it's considered fundamental in my background to have an appreciation of nature and natural phenomenons, because how else are people connected to/able to manage the land they depend on. Not passing the knowledge and appreciation on to children is seen as neglectful all round and whilst I'm a big advocate of free range childhoods, adults absolutely need to pass on some absolute basics at the very least (i.e. why and how to act considerately in nature reserves!!).

We have also witnessed the impact of influencer-type culture on landscapes locally the last few years, in people thinking it's their right to start poorly-managed fires, leave all sorts of litter and cut down trees to burn etc, and the root cause feels like a total lack of education in how to function in wild environments.

That sounds like the opposite environment to the one I went to.

no child infrastructure at all. Not even adult infrastructure except a couple of benches every 500m for the sore-of-knee.

You're supposed to be quiet in the hides and there's usually signage to that effect, but I don't think you can expect kids to be quiet outside in the sanctuary generally. I would have said something in the hide but not outside.

Feral kids are everywhere now unfortunately. 🤷‍♀️

I used to work for the RSPB. Over the past 12 years or so (since the rebrand where they Released The Avocet From The Box logo and briefly changed from RSPB to rspb 😁) they've done a lot to become more child friendly AND keep the 'old guard' of people who like their quiet hobby.

It is totally acceptable to ask people/kids to go scream/talk loudly somewhere else. Hide etiquette is important - community enforcement is the only way on unstaffed nature reserves. I can understand why you're worried, but normally other people in the hide WILL back you up.

Larger sites are normally divided into zones - the further from the visitor centre, the less child friendly. But this is a reserve with no infrastructure beyond the hide and car park. E.g. there's the high infrastructure of Minsmere, next to the quiet, no frills of Dingle Marshes and North Warren. It's okay to have expectations of respect for nature.

I agree with you OP. I take my DS to watch the starlings every year. Both he and I are ND. Even when he was toddling he is not allowed to run around and he keeps a normal level of noise. If he can't do these things we watch from the car because that way we don't disturb the birds and ruin others' enjoyment.

What makes me livid is parents who allow or even encourage their kids to chase animals like birds. I always say something. We were feeding ducks a while back and a child came along and chased them all away. His parents were laughing, 'Oh isn't little Egbert so funny'. No, Little Egbert's behaviour is unacceptable and so was that of his parents.

Yanbu

Crappy parenting, again

I think their spaces vary. We have two near us and the birds that visit are different and the atmosphere is very different. From one of them I wouldn't take my son because he would be too noisy and it wouldn't be fair to the other people watching. But I don't know if there are signs that make this clear. The atmosphere is very different though.

It is brilliant though that parents wants to take their kids out and enjoy nature, we need lots and lots more of that.

^ this

I don’t think you can expect people to adhere to expectations that haven’t been voiced though. Many RSPB car parks near us look just like National Trust car parks. It’s not very inclusive to just assume people are in the know about the etiquette rules. Are the RSPB trying to attract new twitchers or not?

I don’t disagree about kids screaming in a wild life reserve but YABU to call them feral.

They can do this in places other than a nature reserve surely?

In real life, we would call them a lot of other things, but let's stay politically correct and "feral " is quite a gentle description

I think often these nature sites encourage families and children and I would say that higher noise and activity levels are socially acceptable outdoors for children vs indoor spaces.

I agree that signs should be put up to make families more aware because they will be attending the site with completely different priorities I imagine.

Then do you think it would have been appropriate for me to say, excuse me, if we want to see the owls we’ll have to be a bit more quiet and take the volume down. Or would you have been offended as the parent by my middle class pearl clutching in that moment ;) I can imagine the adults who were with them would have been deeply patronised.

It's surely not unreasonable to expect people to do a bit of thinking and look things up for themselves, is it? Personal responsibility. Used to be a thing.

We were at a recital, and two girls behind me did not stop talking the entire bloody time. I looked at them pointedly, then looked at the mum, who seemed to be happy to ignore. So rude, and so entitled. I wish I had said something but they were all local families and I didn’t want to make a scene in front of my own children. I teach-children just don’t want to stop talking, parents will do anything but chastise their children it seems.

Why? A lot of these children are feral (if we take out the ND children). They have zero self control, lack parenting and behave without consequence. If the cap fits.....

Feral is a word derived from the Latin word for wild animals. Seems pretty appropriate to me to describe children running wild and making a lot of noise. We have urban foxes in our area that behave like this and a right royal pain in the arse they are too.

Wasn’t it called common sense once upon a time. Or nous if you admit to being lower class.

I wouldn’t have been offended if you’d been polite no. I’d have been keen to get some tips about what to look out for. The murmations sound quite interesting tbh, but it’s not something I’ve ever come across. Might look it up.

🤣