Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

Why was getting married before having children so important to you? In your words “Just for legal protection.” For your future.

The prenup he’s suggesting is the same the other way, for what he has built in the past. Why is yours acceptable but his cynical and unromantic?

Hopefully you have a long and happy marriage and neither of the legal/financial protections ever need to come into play. But nobody can see the future and, at this stage, legal/financial protections for both of you are sensible in my opinion.

It’s left a very bitter taste. I’ll be the one carrying and giving birth to any future children. I’m not exactly asking for a legal contract where we lay out what should happen if my body is damaged via childbirth or whatever. It’s a leap of faith. As marriage also is.

I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

Why are you, then? You've only been together 2 years, it shouldn't be about convincing him. He should want to.

I couldn't have a baby with someone who wasn't absolutely everything in the pot and equal lifestyles. What about while you're on mat leave? Or if you have to give up working because of a birth injury? Will you have full access to all money or will he expect you to somehow contribute and 50/50 on expenses?

What's the pre-nup conditions?

So you want to be married for ''legal protection'' but now he has mentioned a similar thought you are upset by this?

They are not legal though

The way you describe it OP he has only decided to get married to you because you stood firm on the issue of marriage before children.
And he comes over as very cold and not a loving and caring man. He is protecting his financial position and that is more important to him than love and caring and sharing a life with his partner.

Personally I would be worried about marrying a person like that.

I had a cousin who got screwed with their partner and a mortgage she was paying towards but not on. I would never want to find myself up shit’s creek like she was.

I haven’t got the specifics but fiancé basically says he wants to make sure his business is protected in the event of a divorce.

Pot, meet kettle

OP, have a rethink, he's not worth it.
Are you desperate to marry him?
Because you really would have to be.
There is no love here, just a calculating man being pushed up th aisle.
No thanks.

But the op is the one that wants to be married for legal protection. Where is the romance in that?

When a woman wants financial protection it is called being sensible and the dreaded 'ducks in a row', when a man wants it is is considered cold and uncaring

As far as I know, prenups don't hold up in uk courts

Yup. In no way has this been effortless and I find that quite upsetting. Like I’ve negotiated my love story whilst my friends and family have had men basically jumping for joy at the prospect of marrying them.

I almost feel like ive had to push him to marry me. Even though i really was fine to walk away in the very early stages when he expressed hesitation around the idea of marriage. He ended up changing his position on that but it just seems all like an uphill battle.

If a woman gives birth to children before she is married to her partner she is a heck of a lot more vulnerable and open to financial abuse than typically a man ever is.
Even if OP marries this man who puts money at the forefront of his decisions she is still at risk of being financially abused by him, particularly if she is on maternity leave.
It's still.very much a man's world.

Looking at it in purely rational terms, I can see where he is coming from.

But the way you describe the situation, I get the feeling that he is overly invested in protecting his finances, at the expense of making you feel wanted, cherished and safe.

I have an ironclad pre-nup. Never needed to use it - we kept our individual money separate and all inheritances are separate and we shared the house based on our contributions over time. I put more money into the house at the start and he put more money in later so we ended up as half shares in the house anyway. We split all household bills and childcare and paid 50% each. We have been happily married for over 30 years. And fair enough about wanting to be married before having children - I mean I'd rather be a wife than a girlfriend with children.

I don't think that just marrying somebody after two years entitles you to half of the business they spent years building up.

I went back to work six weeks after having children with a live out nanny so I didn't really have a long period of time where I didn't have a salary. I think it is fair if you are planning to take time off with children and he is on board with that for some provision to be made so you are not disadvantaged during that time ie he puts some money in say your superannuation. And he should absolutely be paying half of childcare costs - it shouldn't be up to fund that solely out of your salary.

Fiancé and I ended up discussing finding a solicitor for me over dinner today. And it just made me feel sick to my stomach.

I would be thinking really carefully about what it would be like to be married to him.

Would you share a joint account? If you were on maternity leave would he give you access to money? Would he have an opinion on if you went out for a coffee with a friend? Got your nails done? Bought some new clothes? Just some things to think about.

@Aquea - you are correct in not looking at marriage just as a flowers and romance. You understand it gives you protection if you have children and end up sacrificing your health/career. You must understand that he also looks at the legal side of marriage and wants to have a degree of protection.
It's NOT about you proving anything, or being un-romantic. It is about the legal side of marriage.
So - be fair. You can't insist on - marriage before kids, meaning YOU don't believe him to take care of you/kid in case things go wrong. While at the same time expecting him to just believe you that you won't come after half of his business after a short marriage.

That said - do negotiate a good pre-nup. Think what you think is fair, discuss it. For e.g, - sure, you plan to get back to work soon after birth - but what if you can't - either for your health, or your child?... Also - what about having more than 1 child - and hence your career being held back, naturally - that has to be included in there somehow. And - more importantly - there needs to be a recognition that if your marriage survives a long term - 10years+ than you do have a more equal claim on assets? or something like that....

Generally - and currently - pre-nups can be set aside, especially in a long marriage - if there is a need to meet partner/children's needs adequately.

So, my advice would be - negotiate your pre-nup and get on with life.

You've negotiated your terms, he's doing the same.

Much of marriage can be unromantic, divorce even less so!

Statistically your marriage has a roughly one in two success rate. I don't blame him. Are you happy with the deal?

Two years is not a particularly short relationship, only on mumsnet would you hear that bandied around, and it is a normal time frame for thinking about marriage, at least when you are in your late 20s, or older. Perfectly reasonable request.

His pre nup idea is probaby reasonable too though.

Of itself, a prenup to protect his business seems sensible. The worry that you’ve pushed him into marriage is something else entirely.

You also haven’t answered how the marital finances will be handled and, most importantly, whether you are comfortable with them. I think you need to be a team with a joint standard of living while you are married. If your earnings take a hit during DC young years, your standard of living should not. We see too many threads where a young mum is struggling financially while her DH lives high on the hog. I find this repulsive. A married couple should be a financial team.

None of this is to say you deserve a half stake in his business if you divorce which is why the prenup seems sensible to me.

I'm so sorry to say it, but I wouldn't be marrying someone who asked me to sign a pre-nup. Or be convincing someone to marry me. Not only because it removes all romance from the situation but mainly because it would completely shift the power in his direction in the relationship. As a woman, as soon as you have kids you're most likely to be at a massive financial disadvantage - you're much more likely to be the one to cut back at work or stop altogether. If you do get divorced, especially if it's after a few years, and need to go back to work full time your earning potential will be far far far lower than his. Marriage would be a legal protection ensuring that you are financially safer, a prenup (depending on the terms) could leave you totally scr**ed. I sorta went the other way (actually by accident), I planted the seed that I wanted kids, he said he wasn't sure, so I said ok and dropped it entirely. Didn't bring it up again (because I didnt want kids with someone who didn't), but I guess that that me dropping it removed the pressure for him in his mind, and a year later he actually proposed to me that we have a child. It had taken away the pressure so that he could make his own mind up about what he wanted. Depends on your age though, regarding how long you're willing to wait in case he changes his mind. But that sick feeling in your stomach is important information, telling you that something is wrong - please listen to it. Not saying that he's necessarily the wrong man, just that this situation isn't feeling right for you. Good luck <3

It's not the most romantic thing, obviously, but I heard on the radio today that it's good for couples to talk & plan for finances in the event of relationship breakdown.
I can certainly see your POV about wanting marriage before children, and I suppose I can see his too - you could be married 20 years, and then be entitled to a share of his business? I'm not sure if it quite works that way tbh - but I imagine that's his fear.
However, you need to discuss more than what happens if you break up. You need to know how finances will work in your marriage - will he want separate finances, or will everything go in the joint pot?
I've heard of a surprising number of couples with separate finances where the man earns higher, and the wife is left struggling for money during maternity leave, left with most of the childcare/housework, and even juggling nursery fees/full time work & 50% of the bills while on a lower income. You don't want to find yourself there.

I've nothing against pre nups, but this man is not the one for you. This isn't about pre nups, or marriage before kids,its about your gut screaming out that this isn't right for you.

Every line of your post suggests you know he's not the one for you, that it doesn't feel right, but that you're too scared to walk away just because it doesn't feel right - that you feel you need a more concrete reason than that - so you're trying to work out whether this is issue with the pre nup is enough of a reason.

Well, with the right person the pre nup wouldn't be an issue, and you dont need a reason to leave someone if it doesn't feel right.

Listen to your gut.

This.

I’m not against prenups for established middle aged people who want to protect their fruits of their lifetime labour.

But he’s looking to barricade his assets yet happy to have you take the physical, financial and social risks of bearing his children??

No thanks. Bin and move on.