Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

I wouldn’t marry someone who asked me to sign a prenup.

Leaving the question of the pre-nup aside, my husband would have been quite happy to just live together. I told him I thought you did that before you married somebody to check you were compatible - if you were you got married, if you weren't you broke up. As soon as he heard my philosophy of marriage, he was very keen to seal the deal, get the ring on the finger and go through a religious ceremony in my faith. I don't like the fact that you really had to twist his arm to get a proposal out of him. It doesn't really sound like he wants to marry you. And simply being married doesn't mean he won't walk out leaving you with the children. If he is not keen now, imagine you have been up for hours with a colicky baby that has never slept for more than two hours at a stretch and screams and screams. How much less keen would he be then? I don't think the pre-nup is really the issue here.

Some random thoughts in no order.

I agree with your marriage then children philosophy.

know that If you sign a prenup without your own separate legal counsel - its very very unlikely to hold should you divorce.

If you get your own counsel he should pay.for both sets and you should pick.

You can negotiate so terms change after x years of marriage or children.

I agree with others this sounds like it doesnt "feel good" and your gut is saying this is a mistake.

From what i see ìn people around me; A divorce is much more emotionally damaging then a bog standatd break up (with and without kids). It really deeply impacts people, there is also the time expense etc. (But... I have never divorced myself)

Depending on my age it would significantly change my apetite for risk re:staying and risking it vs leaving. I now have 2 (3 and 1) and was v v ambivalent about children... i had my first in part "for my dh"... what a clown i was!!!! Knowing what i know now i'd Never ever want to be without them....yet still Would also never have chosen to have children on my own or outside of a marriage (even if that marriage fails).
Eg i'd choose to have an 8 yr marriage 2 kids and then divorce over being single and childless in my 40s or doing sperm donor and being a solo parent (thats just me based on my personality)

You are at a pivotal moment....
I'd consider counselling sessions solo to help you make peace with the prenup or workout how to decline it / end it.

I'm not surprised you feel sick, OP. Asking for a pre-nup is a massive insult.

Yes, I do live outside the UK and I'm a solicitor so I think I can say it is iron-clad. I gather that even in the UK they can have some effect and may even be quite significant but that's not my area. I don't think the statement they aren't worth a bean should be relied upon though. Anybody signing one should have proper legal advice with somebody experienced in the area reviewing and explaining the document. Independent legal advice is crucial.

I completely see why he wants to protect his assets after having made the commitment and sacrifice to carry and give birth to their babies, and all the associated sacrifices.

wait, she’ll be doing all that. These two people are not the same in the sacrifices they will make to have the children they both want, and let’s not pretend they are.

that said, I’m not NOT ok with the prenup, as long as it makes significant allowances for you if you’ve had a baby. If it justs protects him then he’s not worth having a baby with.

You both sound quite untrusting. Why is that? It shouldn’t feel like this OP. Is he really your person?

Good advice

I think a prenup to protect a pre existing business is completely fair. Not only did he build it before he met you (ie without your help and support), but it's also his livelihood. In the event of divorce, if his business gets considered a marital asset then you'd basically be taking his job away. So it's fair to ring fence the business, while all personal assets stay on the table as marital assets. The only caveat is if he tried to hide personal wealth within the company, not sure how that could be fairly exposed.

What assets are you bringing to the table?

Well a much better “protection” against financial disadvantage would be to not give up work, and to not become financially reliant on someone else.

o/p you negotiated marriage to make sure you got your financial security, he is negotiating his.

tbf the business is likely a ltd company and it’s own entity. You’d be a particularly grabby person to force the sale or closure or that business so you could profit on divorce.

why can’t he ring fence the business? Then at least he knows he and his employees won’t suffer in a divorce.

A pre-nup is fine if it also protects you. What do you get if you divorce? Agree to the pre-existing business part of what he wants but make sure there’s an agreement as to what you will get as well as what you won’t.

But why are you making a man who has no interest in it marry you? I completely understand why you want to get married. Question is, why doesn’t he? Even if he is not that interested in marriage in general, that fact that you want it should make him as keen. The right person would marry you a hundred times if that’s what makes you happy.

Marriage isn't romantic. It's a binding contract. The day is all hearts and flowers. Saves on complicated wills and bank access.

Just see the solicitor, take the pre nup with you, what are the terms? I would ask that its null and void should you have a child.

Make sure he gives you the money to pay for the solicitor.

However, , suggest you both have a will in case you get married and pass away.

Ref his business, there are other things he can do to ring-fence it. I think he will settle down, once married.

If you can't get pregnant, do you both plan to divorce? Say after 3 years? If you are horrified by this suggestion, you are not marrying for love.

My friend had this and she's played it beautifully.

In prenup they agree that everything her now husband made before their marriage - is his, and everything after the marriage - is split 50/50.

Of course her now DH made more money and they have an amazing lifestyle. Just moved into £2.5m home (mortgage free), her kids go to the best private school, and she is a part time Pilates teacher. She's very very happy.

I'm happy she handled it well and didn't just spit the dummy out; and gets to enjoy a nice lifestyle and marriage.

Can you do something similar?

Your instinct is telling you this is not a man to marry or raise children with.

Because she’s thinking of having children with him. She is making herself potentially financially and physically vulnerable and he could leave her high and dry.

Don’t marry him or have children with him, OP. He’s not that into you.

And separate your savings! Sounds like his money is his money and your money is his money.

I’m not sure this relationship will work . I can understand the concerns both ways tbh but only
you can decide . Raising children successfully together also requires lots of compromise and how will that go .

Have your feelings towards him & the kind of lifestyle you maybe envisaged now changed? I mean if you truly love him for him, protecting what he’s built up independently of you, should in theory have no bearing. Can the prenup set out terms for ensuring any DC are contributed toward & a maintenance amount negotiated? It could help reassure you that he will support any children & maintain the kind of lifestyle he would envisage them having, what kind of education they will receive etc. I don’t know anything about prenups but that’s how I’d be thinking about this.

Why not? If he's allowed to put what he wants into it, then you should make damn sure all those things are included and locked down too.

Although I agree with others that I wouldn't be going near this guy with a ten-foot barge pole!

I signed a pre-nup OP, it was actually my suggestion even though my husband has the asset as it was worrying him. Slightly different circs as we married after a long relationship, we met as teenagers, and already had children, his business was established when our eldest was 1YO. I’ve worked full time throughout and did 99% of children and housework in the earlier years of his business as he worked insane hours. This is slightly better now but I still do probably 90%. So I think I’ve actually contributed to his business being a success as he’s not had to do anything but run it.

It can be beneficial to both parties. I agreed he could ring fence his business, we keep our own savings, pensions & investments, joint savings split, and in return I would get the entirety of the equity in the family home, and he would continue to pay as spousal maintenance 50% of the monthly mortgage payments until either house is owned outright or our youngest turns 21. At the time we had a mortgage of 30% LTV. He has always said pre marriage that I could ‘keep the house’ if we split as he would not want to uproot DC but I wanted that formalised. He can easily purchase another home if we split, I could not, so protecting this was my priority.

Perfectly reasonable for him/you to retain assets from pre-marriage.

I’m not against pre nups in certain situations at all, and think they can be a good idea. Would I be committing to having children with one hanging over my head? No. No chance. You could be left in an extremely vulnerable position - with children to support and no way of doing so. He hardly sounds like someone that will step up.

I would walk away.

He sounds too selfish and materialistic to take the risk. He has led you to believe you can have a safe, loving and committed relationship, when in fact this feels like a cold, loveless transaction.

Does he ever make you feel cherished? You do deserve to have someone that can make you feel no doubt of their love for you. He is in love with his own bank balance, and everything boils down to that.

Simply dont sign until you have had legal advice. Just wonder what legal protection marriage gives you? Also not source uk recognises prenups in divorce. Get a solicitor. Do you really want to marry him?

They can however be taken into account, weirdly OP is in a similar position a friend was in seven years ago, they got the pre-nup, they’re now divorced. The pre-nup protected their business and the jobs of over 50 people. Without it the business would no longer exisf and the employees would all be out of work.

When you have dc you are sacrificing so much why isn’t he acknowledging that?

Not only are you taking all of the risks physically, your career, pension and salary is likely to take a huge hit even with one child, most women still
do the lion’s share of childcare and mental load (he doesn’t sound like he will) and if he leaves you, you will be left raising his dc pretty much penniless. Why would anyone agree to this? Most wouldn’t op.