Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

We’ll carry on doing what we do now. We have a joint account for household expenses. And then our savings are combined but we have separate pots for holidays, spending money etc.

I don’t think it’s wrong for marriage before children to be non-negotiable. But him asking for a pre-nup is also not unreasonable.

But what strikes me the most is you’ve described your relationship in a way that makes it sound transactional. And so, is it the request of a pre nup that’s bothered you, or has it merely highlighted an unhappiness within your relationship? It seems you don’t feel you have what others have.

Sorry OP, but it's clear that you're not happy with what is happening, please, please listen to what you're gut is telling you - DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN!!

If you do, I fear that you will live to regret it, as having such massively different outlooks on what marriage means to you, is to me a huge red flag.

I agree that the ideal scenario for a woman, is to be married to a man before she has his child, as otherwise he can, if he wishes, walk away, leaving you holding a baby, who of course we all hope would be healthy, but could have severe health problems, that may force you to give up a career, leaving you struggling for money, and without support either financial or emotional. We women literally put our lives on the line when we carry a child, even now, so to me, having a baby before getting the financial security which marriage provides if planning to have children, is a far great risk to a woman's future, than a man losing half his assets if he marries you and it doesn't work out.

For him to protect his assets with a pre-nup, which a solicitor told me is not legally binding in the UK, is him saying that he doesn't trust you not to take him to the cleaners, and while divorce is rife these days, to me it says that he's not all in as far as this relationship is concerned.

OP, you are absolutely right to insist on marriage before children. Protect yourself. However, he's trying to do the same. I think it would depend on what the prenup entitles you to. But, what an awful way to go into marriage and having children with that weighing over you.

He's protecting his business. You'd be advised to do the same on here.

If this is upsetting you, don't marry him.

I'd dump him.

He would be an absolute fool not to have a prenuptial agreement arranged.

Your reaction to this proposition, actually validates the need for a prenup.

Tell him prenups are not recognised in this country so save his money getting one drawn up. Once you are married with children you are entitled to half. If he doesn’t like it then he shouldn’t do that.

@Aquea I think a prenup is a sensible idea. It’s not just about him protecting his business. It’s also about protecting you. Research shows children have a lasting negative impact on women from their earning capacity through to pensions. A pre nup can include how you jointly fund maternity leave, your pension and compensate for loss of earnings if you go part time or become a SAHM.

You quite rightly want marriage before children for the legal protection. A pre nup is an added legal protection. It can also make sure you are aligned in how you raise your children, is he going to be hands on and share the childcare and mental load or is he expecting you to do it all.

Any pre nup needs to be fair- so it should afford you meaningful protection too. That means covering birth injuries etc and making sure you're not one of these wives who has no access to the money their husbands earn, pay for all the children and domestic costs while earning a pittance and looking after the home because they even a pittance in comparison.

You said you wanted a marriage so you weren't screwed over, make sure the agreed terms of that marriage don't screw you over.

And this place is always quick to tell women to marry if they want children for the same reason as you've given so I don't know why you're getting such a hard time over it.

Your cousin getting screwed by a mortgage she was paying towards but not on has nothing to do with prenups, her mistake was not getting her name on the deed making her a co-owner before paying the mortgage on it

Your partner wanting a pre-nup is understandable, he would be screwed without one in the event of a divorce. You should get a lawyer though before signing it, they can help you negotiate a fair prenup that will protect his business\other assets but doesn't completely screw you over either.

Bet if the gender was reversed for the prenup everyone would agree .

You're only saying that because it benefits you. You want the legal protection of marriage because it ONLY benefits you.

It's perfectly reasonable that he should protect the assets he's accumulated on his own. You haven't contributed anything. Sharing the assets you grow together makes sense.

You say you're not after his money, but you are. You want to make a claim on assets he built with no contribution from you if you split up.

Why on earth are your savings combined when you aren’t even married?

I don't think prenups are legal in the UK.

There is nothing wrong with a prenup. It’s the terms that are important.

you mention things like what if your body is damaged in childbirth. That could be covered in a prenup. If you become disabled or can’t work because you were having his child, his payout to you should increase.

wvery time you as a couple make a decision that harms your career and favors his, a good prenup will account for that.

it shouldn’t just protect his interests.

Nah, I think just from observing other men I know, the kind of man who is pushing for a prenup is likely the kind of man who would try to screw you over financially in the event of a divorce. The men I know who are totally fair financially with their wives/ex-wives never in a million years would have even considered a pre-nup!

Do you want a happy marriage and a happy family?

Then walk away. This is not the man to do it with.

He wants all the benefits of a woman at home, giving him kids, running the house blah blah but with her also working FT and paying half the bills. Yet he wants to shoulder absolutely none of costs that that would incur.

Throw this one back. His money, his business and indeed himself, will always come first. Look at how he is behaving now and then consider how he will behave when you have PND or a broken leg or two kids and you all going down with Noro.

He is a selfish man who is out for himself. NO. NO. NO.

It shouldnt, but you can bet your sweet ass that it will.

I feel he can’t be fully invested in you as his wife and life partner and mother of his children. It’s as if he has divorce in the back of his mind before he’s even married.

You want marriage before children which he reluctantly agreed to but now wants to negate the marriage with a prenup. And you have to pay for the privilege of granting him that prenup.

I don’t blame you for being hesitant. It really is enough to put you off.

I don’t blame him at all for wanting to protect his business. The livelihoods of 35 people depend on him. What will happen to their jobs if your marriage ends and you demand half of the business?

Also, you say it doesn’t make a lot of profit and has significant overheads. Debts? If he ringfences the business it would also protect you from any liability if things go wrong.

He wants you to have independent legal advice to protect your interests. That’s a good thing.

He sounds like a pretty sensible guy to me.

Exactly this.

If you are financially mismatched or your marriage would pose a risk to your business who wouldn't protect it. It's neive to assume marriage is all love and laughter, it can be but it can also end in divorce. There is no harm in thinking of the worst case scenario and insuring yourself against it.

Had my husband not come from a similar background to me and was of similar financial standing I would have chosen to develop a pre nup pre marriage. I would not want to risk inheritance and my business either. As it was he is of equal standing and therefore the risk reduced and we do not have one.

It's sensible and nothing to fear if life goes well and if it doesn't well you will be arguing over whatever is not ring fenced and your husband's business can continue unhindered.

He's encouraging her to get a solicitor herself, if she follows that and it's a good solicitor this will not be an issue.

It sounds as if his pre-nup suggestion could be spite as you wouldn't take the 'girlfriend he has kids with' role he wanted.

The general protections offered by marriage are different from the specific ringfencing of assets in a pre-nup, I don't think you're being hypocritical at all. Marriage is particularly valuable on the death of a spouse - inheritace without inheritance tax, rights to a proportion of their pension, and the status of next of kin - unmarried partners don't get to decide where their partners are buried.

My gut reaction from your posts is that he's not particularly caring or kind, so I'd be wary of getting married to him. But if he's actually decent apart from the marriage issue, then go see a solicitor. I don't think there's such a thing as an iron clad pre-nup in the UK, especially if you have kids.

I also don't think that the courts would give you half of his business if you divorce after a short childless marriage, so he may think that he needs a level of higher level of protection than he actually does.

This is weird surely you understand that you have said to him you want the protection of marriage, this is finacial protection. Its they only thing marriage does gives you some security.

You have had nothing to do with his success you have not contributed you didnt know him. Your mindset indicates to me that he should walk away. Your finacially mismatched and you are focused on what benefit you get from him.

The people say in that you should throw him back if you're going to be marrying anyone with sense.And a high income and assets, a preanup is a very normal conversation.It indicates that you're not used to dealing or being around this level of income or wealth.A prenup can be protective to you as well.It just needs to be carefully negotiated for people saying they're not legal in the u.K, you need to check that changed about five years ago.They're very much legal in the u, k, and they've been tested in open court. I don't know if you, will actually make it to the marriage simply because you've made it look like a large financial play.

Even if that's not your intention, it's very difficult to find men or women with assets at that level that need to be protected.But it doesn't mean that, because you've married then.You have also contributed to their prior success.Anything that you build together during the marriage is yours, but the stuff before the marriage is not. You used children as leverage, it kind of doesn't make sense.

He can have children with anybody. If you literally can have children with anybody that isn't a special skill. It's not unique to you. What should be the focus is the relationship in the future? Could be a way for you to explore what he actually wants to do. And for you to tell him, as it seems that you have an expectation, that he fully financially supports you? That expectation needs to be put on the table now.

The women on her talking about how it's unromantic for him to do this. And at the same time, say that marriage offers perception or I've ever deliberately dishonest or very confused. You're talking about the same thing, just from different perspectives. You're implying that it's right for a woman to benefit financially from marriage. But it's wrong for a man to financially protect himself. Doesn't make any sense and just to be, you know, completely honest at least in the circles. I am mixing and at work. This is a frequent topic of conversation. At least in men that work in finance and a prennup is the one thing that all of his friends and colleagues. Any of his social circle would push him to do.