Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

That’s very sensible of him.

Marriage is a legal contract, nothing more. You insisted on him signing up to legally share his life and assests with you, this is his, very sensible, response. If you don't like him doing exactly the same as you (protecting himself in the event of any future problems) then you need to move on to someone with less to lose, or less clued up. You started this.

FWIW i don't agree with the MN insistence that any woman not married before having DC is stupid. I'm a single parent doing very well for myself and had I been married the separation would have been much worse for me.

Negotiate think of it like a divorce contract you will need a place for you and the children to live a lump sum rising in proportion to your marriage if your injured during childbirth that rises if your off work due to children that rises basically protect yourself and after a certain amount of time it should become invalid

Also dont forget to protect any inheritance you might get and any assets you might develop too

I had this. We did it (after 8 years or so together!!), but really the solicitor said that it's a waste of money and not worth the paper it's written on in the UK. They will consider EVERYTHING in the case of divorce.

So if you take time out to raise your family/ even maternity leave etc. So in 5/10 years, it will pretty much be obsolete.

In fact, will he be supporting you throughout maternity leave etc? Probably time for these discussions sooner rather than later.

Not a nice feeling though, I agree (especially because he made his financial leap since we've been together - and I followed him around the world to enable him to do this and still be together).
Nothing romantic about it.

Yep this. I’m much worse off married as I brought the house etc into the relationship.

don’t give up work is all I can say. Don’t ever lose your financial independence. Kids don’t mean you have to lose your career. Also remember there are compromises such as both of you going four days, it doesn’t have to be him provide, you care total split. You can share.

Marriage isn’t romantic it is a legal contract to protect, a prenup is also a contract to protect.

if you go ahead think of the protection you need for the future and add a clause about children if there is a possibility that your career will take a hit.

Not a chance would I marry him.

DH and I entered marriage more or less financially equal, but I would not marry someone I had to browbeat to marry me and who then presented me with a prenup.

So your assets would be shared 50 50 and his would be ring-fenced for him?

How is he proposing to recompense you for that? As a financial partner he wants to be considered as having no assets and no income.

Even my gut is saying ‘Don't marry him’.

You both seem overly transactional in this relationship… and as you pointed out, your friends are waltzing up the aisle hand in hand and you’re almost forcing him to do the same.
(I get your reasons why)

It shouldn’t feel like this. Really it shouldn’t…

Walk away, there is no trust. You are not ready to have children with this man.

I think it’s very sensible and acceptable for him to want to protect what he has built prior to meeting you and getting married. His business and wealth is not something you have built up together during your marriage so should not have to be impacted if it came to divorce.

I would also point out that you have a romanticised version of getting married before having kids, I admittedly did the same thing but then the road to having children was difficult and we ended up divorced due to the heartache that occurred due to having several miscarriages and subsequently not having any children. This could very well happen to yourself as children are not guaranteed.

That was all many years ago and I now look at life through a more realistic lens and have recently bought a house with my partner, I brought around 200k equity from the sale of my previous home and we agreed that I should protect this in the event of breaking up in future so I get my money back out of the sale of the house should it come to that and then everything after that is spilt 50/50. DP is more than happy with this agreement as he understands that this is my money that I have built up over the years and my ‘life savings’ and he didn’t not have anything like this amount of deposit to contribute to the new home. Ideally we will continue to live together and never have to use this bit of paper but it’s there just incase life takes an unexpected turn and we go our separate ways.

I am wondering if you are perhaps still in the young and naive stages of live which isn’t a bad thing, it’s just that as you get older you start to look at things differently, I don’t think you should be taking this personally I think it shows he is responsible and sensible.

I would be having more conversations with your partner to make sure you are both in agreement and working as a team alongside each other as your current situation doesn’t sound too healthy.

If you feel unloved then you should move on. I'd go with your gut feelings rather than any right or wrong of the situation.

Sorry. It must be a difficult position to be in but do believe in yourself.

My husband and I are super pragmatic about money and financial security, but it never felt like this. I felt chosen and cherished, and our money conversations all felt joint somehow. I'm sorry I can't describe it better, but it felt warm and safe and just more joint somehow.

You’re not engaged unless and until this is resolved, also what will happen regarding both your working hours after DC.

If you’re in the UK pre nups have limited weight.

You do indeed need a solicitor. Wouldn’t be surprised if your DP won’t agree to terms that benefit you after DC, or after X time, which will likely mean the end of your relationship.

I voted yabu

You are protecting yourself by wanting to get married.

He Is protecting himself by wanting a pre nup.

it goes both ways. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

If he is the director of the business and you have nothing to do with it will be protected anyway.

What is your personal wealth and what is his?

He’s not being unreasonable.
If you’re concerned about your finances and pension, he needs to do 50% with the kids so you can work full time, or at least pay into your private pension while you’re off with them.
If you stay married, the pre nup won’t affect you, and you’ll benefit from his wage anyway.

I'd have a prenup if I had my own company to be honest. It's not very romantic obviously, but I think it's sensible to protect what you've worked for.

This exactly ^^

He has no more confirmation that you won’t divorce him in a couple of years and try and take half his business and you have no confirmation that he won’t up and leave you homeless / unsupported with a child. You can’t say that insisting on marriage before it was even a stable relationship won’t have played a part in his thoughts.

You have only been together 2 years he probably is concerned that your insistence on marriage is because you are grabby. You want legal protection but are annoyed he does too doesnt seem fair

OP I’m afraid you may of started this. Getting married was your ‘prenup’ to having children. He wants similar financial protection from marriage.

Seeing a solicitor sounds really smart. I understand him wanting to protect his business in case of a divorce but surely the business is separate from him, it’s his income from the business that would be considered? And then in that meeting you can raise questions like how to account for wear and tear on your body from having children, depreciation on your job marketability because employers discriminate against mothers, and ask who would give up their career if the child has long-term illness and how to account for loss of future earnings in that case. I buy into the prenup idea but only if it is mutually beneficial.

but I do think you need to ask whether this is the man for you, even if your biological clock is ticking. It doesn’t normally feel uphill at this stage. Maybe you will grow together but where do you see this 5 years from now?

I notice that you’re refusing to engage with this made by a few posters, OP, but it’s a good one.

You are sensible to marry before kids if he is the higher earner.

He is sensible to protect his assets if he is the higher earner.

A pre-nup isn’t necessarily binding, and it would protect you as well. Why do you think you’ll end up contributing to a mortgage you’re not on?

He wants to have the wife and children without sacrificing any of his security or comfort at all.

He is looking for a doormat that will produce his children, take all of the risks herself and he can enjoy it from afar, whilst he gets on building his empire. He is not going to be the type to share, or go 50/50 on the night wakings, childcare, house grunt work and sick days and ofc the mental load. No chamce.

He will claim he is the breadwinner, and needs to work whilst depriving op of any financial security at all. She can sacrifice everything - that’s fine, but he isn’t willing to do the same for her or his future children. Sod that.

Having children is too hard, too risky and a life time commitment not just financially but emotionally and physically too, it’s truly exhausting. You will end up extremely resentful if you allow your future to be swallowed up by this type of man.

OP when children were brought up, you stated "not before marriage" so therefore that was a transaction that you refused to observe. Nowhere did you, based on the background given, help him achieve his assets and business before meeting you. Find your own solicitor, and draw the transactions you need to move forward. Also prenups are held up in the UK as by the Supreme Court with the Radmacher v Granatino (2010), as long as both parties enter it freely, understanding everything, and it's not considered unfair. If he won't agree to your terms, then move on or stay the status quo. Personally I've had tax clients who were misguided during divorce when a spouse was unaware of numerous financial improprieties because they never cared to learn from the other, which cost both thousands in legal fees. If the business goes under, the assets get sold, etc. then make it part of the prenup that any transactions of a certain dollar value must be informed in writing to you. A couple in particular I worked with, the spouse was unaware that there was nothing left financially because they were in massive debt and stupidity is not a valid response to the tax assessor. If you're not interested in the prenup, date a poor bloke instead of someone with money, so you won't have this dilemma of feeling your relationship is just transactional.