Ex charging daughter for animal supplies

[StitchHappens]

My ex got a rabbit for our daughter (now 13) around a year ago. At the time she was spending half her holidays at his, and half of her weekends fri to sun, the others just on a Sunday. He had an agreement with her that she was to pay for everything the rabbit needed (food/bedding/treats/toys etc). I thought this was unfair as essentially the only way she had of funding this was the pocket money I gave her and her savings, however it was an agreement between them so I didn't interfere.
Since then he has started a business with his partner which means if my dd is there she has to be with them at the shop for the day. Due to this she has started just going to his late on a Saturday night and staying til 4 on a Sunday (when she has riding lessons there - which I pay for). This means she has very little time to spend with the rabbit, basically cleaning it out on a Sunday morning before leaving around 9.30am ish. Because of this he suggested that she bought the rabbit to mine, which i agreed to. Ex came in to discuss yesterday when he dropped her off and asked if we had everything we needed including a cage. I said i wouldn't be buying a cage as I was under the impression it was just a case of moving the rabbit from one house to the other. He then messaged my daughter last night and said he would bring the rabbit when she had transferred £60 for the cage/mats. Am I wrong to thing he is taking the piss?? Or is this between them? I am inclined to transfer her the money as u don't think he should be asking her for it. They got the rabbit for free and she has paid for everything it has needed for the past year.
Aibu?

Give over! Thats not what she’s asked for opinions/help with. Give the lass a break.

Also not sure if rabbit is with you yet but worth being aware of the signs of stasis, the stress of the move may trigger it

Rabbits are social animals, and like hopping about freely in a garden (if they are kept as pets). Keeping one alone in a hutch is cruel. We lived in the country and had one as a child (black and white), he (or she) escaped from our garden and joined a warren in a field nearby and lived many years in harmony with the wild rabbits.

I have a working line gundog OP, that post-dated the free roaming rabbits we had first.

Whilst they can live happily together, in the sense they will sniff each other through the stair gate/ rabbit den, my rabbit and my dog would absolutely not be Ok free roaming without supervision. Although I don’t think the dog would deliberately kill the rabbit for prey, there is a very high change the dog would chase a fast moving furry thing and bring it to me albeit in his soft mouth. Rabbits are not robust, at all, and one episode of being a bit scared could cause stasis and shutdown.

As long as you keep them apart all will be fine. It you know your dog: dont be lulled into a rainbows and butterflies scenario with two animals ;)

I am on my second house rabbit. Rabbits need company and stimulation. Could you make he or she in to a house bun?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he made up the breeder comment on keeping it alone, so he wouldn't need to look after two of them. Well done for putting the rabbit first and supporting your daughter.

Hi OP,

I haven’t read the full thread, only your replies. So am likely repeating some/all info, but just wanted to comment as I have had house rabbits for many years, and have bonded different pairs of rabbits through those years as one has passed away.

The RWAF website, which others have linked to, sets out the minimum care requirements. For me these are truly the minimum - my rabbits are fully free roam and live a life of
total luxury. I think there also has to be some understanding that right now, that isn’t possible for you. But what is possible is rescuing this bun from quite poor conditions from your ex. And that’s a great thing to do ☺️!

So with that in mind, some hopefully practical advice that has worked really well for me:

• get the bunny insured as soon as possible. I use Sainsburys pet insurance and have always found them to be reasonable with payouts.
• find a rabbit savvy vet near where you’re located (you can join UK rabbit fb groups and ask for recommendations in your area). Or ring a few practices and ask if they have any vets with exotics / rabbit experience. This is really crucial - I’ve lost rabbits before because they have been under the medical care of vets without proper exotics experience. When you find a good vet, ask them to speak to you about the signs of gut stasis in rabbits so you know what to look out for.
• get the bunny vaccinated ASAP. And then yearly thereafter. Make sure the vaccination is for myxo and RHD.
• get bunny neutered ASAP. Bunnies generally become a lot calmer after neutering, but it takes about 8 weeks for hormones to settle.
• if you can’t have free roaming, try getting a cage and keep open at all times, but enclose it within a baby gate wrapped round it. We have an open cage for our bunnies which is their base - litter box and hay is kept in there, and then they jump in and out. And then by using a baby gate you are giving them a bit more space to move about when you aren’t home.
• never use sawdust with bunnies. It can cause respiratory problems. We line our cage with a small layer of hay, then have a little box (a basic cat litter tray) that we put “back 2 nature small animal bedding and litter” in. They are grey paper pellets. We then have hay holders in the cage that we replenish throughout the day. We change their cage and litter box every 2 days.

I wrote out quite a bit more of advice and bullets OP, but it hasn’t posted.
If what I’ve written above is in any way helpful, respond to my message and I’m happy to keep going and write out everything that was deleted ☺️

and if you’d like to PM me for advice please do. I’m really passionate about rabbit welfare but also hope my approach is non-judgemental and practical based on the best people can offer given circumstances.

Yes, I agree with that, if it is already a house bunny it needs to stay that way

I'm so unsure rabbits should be caged at all. They are really wild animals and need the company of others in a warren. Cats and dogs like living in houses, but donkeys, ponies, goats, rabbits, geese etc. need outdoor space with decent shelters. (I admit it is amusing seeing them come out for breakfast and then go straight back into their shelters when it is cold, but they always look after each other).

Thanks. I actually hadn't considered this as an option.

Thanks, this is all really helpful. The cage with a baby gate in particular is a genius idea for during the day.

He sounds horrible, particularly because he expects his daughter to pay for pet supplies and because he thought that it was ok to keep a rabbit alone.
Just no.

I haven't read the full thread, but sounds as if you are determined to do the right thing by the bunny, and your daughter.

I agree that getting the rabbit set up and feeling secure at your house is the priority. You can then take advice on whether there should be an attempt at bonding with a mate. There are people that work with bonding rabbits of you need it.

As you already have guinea pigs, you are probably aware that both rabbits and piggies are classed as exotics and should be seen by an exotic vet.

We didn't realise before getting our piggies ( despit both having guinea pigs as children, and doing research on looking after piggies with ourdaughter before getting them). It was only because the vet we used, said they were asking an exotic vet for advice at one point we realised. We now go to that exotic vet instead.

This is incorrect. CMS can also take a partners income into consideration and forcefully make them pay CMS, also. I think he is better off out of their lives completely. He sounds toxic, and this does make for a safeguarding issue because it's a form of financial entrapment and emotional blackmail.

What is her relationship with her brother like? Do they talk about their dad? He could be a positive influence if he explains why he no longer visits.

Hope the rabbit keeping goes well.

He’s a piece of shit but this poor rabbit is being neglected. You need to address that ASAP rather than quibbling about money.

I’ll add my missing bullets as the other ones seemed somewhat useful ☺️

• Rabbits hearts are so small they don’t do well with change or shock. You’re right about keeping it seperate from your dog. Also be conscious of things like fireworks, very loud noises, and making sudden changes to diet (see below for my advice re food and how to do this).
• solo bunnies need a lot of interaction and activity (which is sadly not a complete replacement for a friend). I’ll list out some toy ideas below as well, but you and your daughter should interact with the bun as much as possible when you can, but DO NOT pick the bunny up unless there is a medical or similar reason to do so. It will make them scared of you and won’t help foster a positive relationship. To build trust, sit or lay on the floor and let the rabbit come to you, sniff you and climb on you, you can put herbs on you / in your hands to tempt it over. Slowly you’ll gain its trust, but it takes time!
• Food - rabbits only true need is good hay. We use Rye Grass hay from The Hay Shed. We supplement hay with a small handful of herbs (basil, coriander - never chives or something onion related) every couple of days, but no pellets or treats as it’s just not needed. However, it’s important to make any changes in diet slowly. Find out what the bunny is being fed on atm, and slowly transition it to a good diet. E.g if it’s only being fed crap quality hay and pellets, don’t just immediately stop these. Get some good hay like I’ve recommended above (companies like Hay Shed do taster boxes so you can find the hay your bun likes best) and mix it in with your bunnies current diet, bit by bit, and slowly reduce amount of pellets and treats. Then eventually the new diet becomes the norm! We have hay holders inside the cage and top them up throughout the day - they get through a LOT.

• TOys and treats - avoid pretty much everything from Pets at Home as sadly a lot of the stuff they sell for rabbits is actually very dangerous. Safe toys could be things like palm leaf trays, willow tunnels, rosewood naturals toys (all from Amazon). And look on places like The Hay Shed as they sell bunny safe toys and treats (dried herbs, dandelion roots etc). But a good guide is if it’s not a natural colour, it’s not safe for a rabbit.
• rabbits, especially not neutered, can be chewers. If going in a bedroom you may find they start chewing at your skirting board and carpet. The baby gate is good for blocking off bits like like skirting and woodwork. If you have carpet, you could try putting down carpet tiles or vinyl where the rabbit will be to proper your flooring. And on the flip side, if you have wooden flooring you may find bun can’t walk on it as it’s too slippy - in this case get a jute rug!
• indoor rabbits can’t move outdoors and vice versa as their fur won’t be suitable for the environment. An indoor bun can become an outdoor bun, but you have to make the switch at a certain time of year (I’ve never done this so not sure when, but you can find out on fb groups).
• indoor rabbits can still be taken outside in summer into a safe and secure run but you must be with them AT ALL TIMES. Even seeing a cat or fox could shock your bun into a heart attack. And bunnies are diggers so they could tunnel under a run with no bottom if left alone. They should never be free roam in a garden even if you are with them. It’s not worth the risk.

• cat carriers are useful for transporting rabbits. We line ours with a towel and put down hay and some herbs.
• use a water bowl rather than a bottle. A dog bowl is fine, and we just use a plastic Tupperware box. Change it every day or so regardless of whether it’s empty.
• I mentioned rabbits as chewers - they’ll really go for any cables. So get cable protectors!

I think that covers everything in my day to day care of bunnies. Once your bun is settled into their new home, is at least 8 weeks post neuter, and eating and drinking well, I think you can start to consider what you do next. If the breeder did say the bunny has to be kept along then they’re utter liars. Rabbits needs companions - and if the bun was behaving badly with others it’s very likely driven by hormones and not being neutered. A neutered bun can have an entirely different personality.

Ideally you would find a local rescue and they could bond your bun to one of their rescues. They can try different buns until they find the right match. And by using a rescue if the bond doesn’t last or breaks down, they will take
back the bun so you aren’t left with two unhappy rabbits! If not, I do think it would be best to consider giving the bunny to a rescue (never give away on fb etc) so they can find it a home with a pair - I know it seems crazy if you have what seems like a happy bunny in a safe home but truly rabbits need other rabbits. Humans aren’t replacements which I’ve learnt the hard way myself.

drop me a PM and happy to answer any questions!

Buy a new hutch and refuse to pay him for his. Let it be his loss.

Not the point of the thread, to which I have nothing new to add - BUT I have learned a tremendous amount about pet rabbits 😁 (never had one, no intention of ever having one, but still! All knowledge is good knowledge eh)

Thank you so much for all of that wonderfully useful information.
We already use the hay shed for our guinea pigs. I believe she is on newspaper at the moment, but will be putting mats down.. fingers crossed she doesn't chew too many holes in them!
We will neuter and then go from there regarding other bunnies.
Thanks again. 💐

Could I please suggest you do the Freedom Program with her when she's 15/16? Imo, every mid teen girl should do it to make them aware of relationship red flags, but I think it's especially important for young adult girls who've had to navigate growing up around controlling/abusive fathers. You can access the course online.

Thanks, that is a really good idea 💐