To think my friend was racist, rude or both?

[RicottaOtter]

I was talking to a friend this morning. This friend is very concerned about excessive immigration to the UK, and plans to vote reform at the next general election because she believes only reform have the guts to tackle the problem properly. I was listening and not saying anything when this friend suddenly said, ‘Don’t worry - you’ll be okay, because of your husband, and you’re a mother to English children…’

I was gobsmacked at first - then realised she was talking about my ethnicity (one quarter English/one quarter white South African but originally English/half East European Jewish). I’ve lived in England my entire life and as far as I’m concerned I’m as English as this friend who was talking to me - whatever my ancestry might be.

Now, remember, this friend was (I think?) trying to be nice and reassuring (‘Don’t worry, you’ll* be okay’) - but I felt quite horrified and angry to have this said to me - am I being unreasonable?

Are you OP’s friend? You are basically saying exactly the same thing as her.

YANBU OP. I'd feel insulted too because what she said shows that she doesn't see you as the same as her. She sees you as different - other. This is how she thinks. This is who she is. I'm glad you'll be ending this friendship.

Only time will tell.

I'm sorry, there is uncertainty for many people right now.

I think you should ask her what she means by that comment. Act confused and make her explain herself.

Racism is about treating someone differently because of imagined racial superiority or inferiority. It is not about just recognising difference. You felt "othered" because you know your background is different and are hyper sensitive about it. So no, this doesnt meet what I would see as racist - but claiming it is is what encourages reform.

I’d suggest the OP felt othered because her friend said “you’ll be ok though”.

There’s an inherent implication that some people will not be ok.

She wouldn't have made that statement to someone with an entirely British family history.

The friends isn’t just recognising difference in
that conversation.

Haven't read the whole thread

Tommy Robinson is quite anti-Reform I think. He is endorsing Advance UK now, unless he changed his mind - I don't keep up

There are actual ethno Nationalists out there yes. I had this conversation with a friend who didn't understand why it was problematic that she called everything racist. I've explained to her that there are ethno nationalists in the local area who would kill me or wish me harmfor the colour of my skin.... I think she's more careful about using the word (but possibly a bit freaked out)!

@RicottaOtter it is shocking when you discover someone you've got along with for years is racist in that way. I had a friend who thought Sunak shouldn't be allowed to be prime minister. She also didn't understand why I would have an issue with her saying that.

The fact that you don't get it doesn't mean that it isn't racist.

The racism is right there if you choose to look.

Many things are encouraging reform, but I’m afraid the time for tiptoeing around them and what they stand for, in fear of pushing people further towards them, is past.

We’ve got to start calling this shit out, highlighting the cognitive dissonance that falling for their bullshit requires, countering their fake news with actual facts- and yes, absolutely engaging meaningfully and sympathetically with the core issues that are worrying voters (the economy, housing, health) and offering genuine, legal, and fair policy alternatives to the VERY familiar scapegoating Reform are peddling.

But we cannot continue to pretend that the real Reform and what they ACTUALLY stand for, behind the “we’re just responding to the voters and what they’re worried about” have any place in a civilized democracy.

Wow, I sincerely hope that your friend isn't in a position of leadership /recruitment or similar position.
Unconscious bias training would be essential.
It always amazes me the blatant racism and prejudice of some people, truly worrying

People saying reform aren't going to revoke citizenship. They're racists. Of course they're going to say that. But if they get in, which is a chilling prospect, I'll bet that they'll review all the policy around this and start to revoke it.

Pandering to racism is their only policy.

I would absolutely drop any friends who supported these wankers.

It’s obviously a judgement. She thinks OP will be ok because her husband is white. This shows she thinks those who aren't are lesser than her, not properly British (despite OP being a citizen in her own right).

Very. If they are in power they can change laws. And I have no faith they won’t. Farage is a Nazi sympathiser at best from way back.

I have a mixed ethnicity DD (she is adopted and is the only non white person in our family).
The problem with "oh I don't mean you" is of course that this implies there is something wrong with being from that other group.
Same with "where are you from" "you're not local" etc. I had a really weird conversation with a taxi driver last night taking DD to swimming (DH was picking up the car from the garage and was running late).
The taxi driver said "that's not a local accent". I've lived in the NW for 20 years and we don't live in a "local town for local people" area at all so I was surprised and told him that. "Where are you from though" "England". He even accused me of being from the South (an insult to us Midlanders though I've lost my West Mids accent to be fair).
Now I'm wondering if he noticed my DD skin colour and was trying to comment on that in some obscure way. People have asked me where she's from before though and I just tell them where we live "well we live here".
I have never had this comment, ever, in my 20 years up here.

On almost every single post about Reform or racism up pops a certain poster who denies that anyone experiences racism. Just ignore her. She is either a troll, or just a very bigoted and ignorant woman who deliberately closes her eyes to the reality of what is happening in the UK right now. She does not engage in good faith, and I have long since stopped doing so and would advise others to do the same.

Because racists are out there agitating? Nobody has changed their mind. Farage and his nonsense just make people think it’s ok to say it.
I'm assuming you mean something about asylum seekers. You’ve been had. Taken for a ride.
Apologies if you meant something else, but that’s how your post reads.

So you are literally posting about her while she is in your house????

Oh my god.

We all have something to worry about with a Reform government.

It doesn’t matter if they WILL or CAN they cause enough damage to the fabric of society - already on its last fucking legs - by saying they WOULD consider it. It gives legitimacy to the racist, xenophobic, isolationist tendencies that are on the rise in this country and we have to squash them. Though I think we’ve missed the boat.

re: “why can’t native brits be hired”- what are you going to do? Force Brits into the fields and care homes? They don’t want the jobs we’re importing people to do. A bigger problem with the job market is that manufacturing and now increasingly white collar jobs are going overseas because we cannot compete economically, and now employers are throwing their lot in with AI (foolishly) well before they really understand how to use it- but they are cutting jobs as they do so. This is a bigger problem for the UK, about our position as a declining Country in a global capitalist economy- and it’s got fuck all to do at its heart, with “immigrants taking jobs”.

You can't possibly know what Reform will or won't do if they manage to get themselves elected. You might not think that they will seek to remove people's citizenship, but you don't know that.

Tbh, it would cause quite an international backlash if they removed residence rights for people who already have indefinite leave to remain, but Farage has already stated that this is his intention. It isn't much of a leap from that to removing citizenship. Particularly for naturalised citizens or people with dual citizenship etc. You can't possibly say with any certainty that this won't happen.

As for whether the OP has anything to fear from a Reform government...frankly, we all need to fear a Reform government. Sadly, some people will be too stupid to see them for what they are until it is far too late.

She’s shown her colours. Now ask the racist b to leave your home. Then block.

I guess it isn't easy to ask someone who you thought was a friend to leave. The OP is probably in shock!

That’s unintentionally revealing I think. She’ll be ‘fine’ ie not deported. But only because of a policy (which could change). Not because you think she’s actually as British as you.

Being not quite racist enough to get the approval of white supremacist is not the flex you think it is.

Sadly your friend is a massive twat.