To think my friend was racist, rude or both?

[RicottaOtter]

I was talking to a friend this morning. This friend is very concerned about excessive immigration to the UK, and plans to vote reform at the next general election because she believes only reform have the guts to tackle the problem properly. I was listening and not saying anything when this friend suddenly said, ‘Don’t worry - you’ll be okay, because of your husband, and you’re a mother to English children…’

I was gobsmacked at first - then realised she was talking about my ethnicity (one quarter English/one quarter white South African but originally English/half East European Jewish). I’ve lived in England my entire life and as far as I’m concerned I’m as English as this friend who was talking to me - whatever my ancestry might be.

Now, remember, this friend was (I think?) trying to be nice and reassuring (‘Don’t worry, you’ll* be okay’) - but I felt quite horrified and angry to have this said to me - am I being unreasonable?

Neither is the racist agitating.

Why are you friends with her? She sounds horrible and not someone I would want as a friend

Natives? Wtf?!

Just to be clear, you are not being brave and you are not saying what everyone else is thinking. You speak for a repugnant minority.

Of course I don't - Abu Hamza was British and he was not white. I am not conflating skin tone and Britishness, of course not.

I wonder if she’s xenophobic or antisemetic? I don’t know if it matters but I wonder what part of you she deems unacceptable. So many options nowadays.

I have reform neighbours who started talking about the issues of immigration over the fence. I was being way too polite about it as I have to live here and just edging away but it was bewildering to me. My husband and I immigrated here 20 years ago from the states ‘and’ their daughter immigrated to Australia 15 years ago. I can only assume this is all fine as we are white and English speaking? Super gross and I eventually had to shut it down firmly and walk away. We stick to weather chat now which is fine.

My children and I are also Jewish so sometimes I don’t know if the issue people have with me is about immigration or religion - have had unsettling experiences on both topics over the last year. So many reasons for hate, but none of them are worth it.

anyway I’d bin her yesterday. Appreciate it’s hard in the moment but get her out. You’ll just feel icky otherwise. And I’d want her to never speak to my kids anyway.

Whoooooosh. So that went right over your head then…

Yeah, she'd be an EX friend for me, and real quick!

As it tends to with 'these people'.

What do you mean by 'natives'? How far back are you going? What do you mean by 'over run'. These really aren't the right terms to be using and you certainly aren't brave to be using them.
It is possible to have a discussion and express the perspective that we have had too much immigration in the last 30 years without putting it in such a foolish way.
The OP's ? ex friend is racist. The OP is British and has grown up in the UK.

There are indeed massive double standards wrt white people immigrating. The Brits abroad are ex pats don't you know?!

I would let her stay as she intended (to avoid drama) but would fade the friendship out after this.

She said in the OP she was born here so why wouldn't she be a citizen? 🤔 🙄

She was racist for sure but do you think you’re more English than someone who is black and English born but whose parents came from Jamaica because you’re white South African / half European?

Whiteness does not confer Englishness.

YANBU if you’re offended on behalf of all non-white immigrants, not just yourself.

Being born in the UK doesn’t automatically confer citizenship.

That's quite upsetting OP. She seems to be confusing nationality with ethnicity, and in doing so implying she only believes 'white' people to be British. She doesn't see you as her English peer. I'd be interested to know her stance on white immigrants like Irish or western European. I think people are absolutely allowed raise concerns about immigration levels but when they start specifying who they see as the right sort and the wrong sort based on ethnicity then that's just racism isn't it.

Sorry for being dense OP, but were you born here?

To some, if you weren’t, you’ll always be “other”.

Nice to see that you’re only ok because other people validate you (DH and your DC). Doesn’t sound as if you’re “ok” without them according to your “friend”.

Anyone who wasn’t born here, has non-white skin, or is in any other way “not 100% British” is a prime target right now.

I find it really shocking how xenophobia and racism has rapidly risen. It’s always lurked in the shadows but until recently, it wasn’t openly encouraged.

I don’t know where we are heading as a country but Reform, Tommy Robinson et al are dangerous. They spread lies and propaganda with no regard for the truth. Their sole goal is to whip up hate while lining their own pockets.

I’m sorry your friend said this to you OP. Ideally you’d confront her about her views and she can fuck off out of your house but I understand that might be difficult. If you don’t feel able to do that, then I’d grit my teeth and get through the weekend and then I wouldn’t see her again. She’s effectively told you she sees you as less than her, and only acceptable because of your DH and DC. You deserve so much better than a friend like that. Lots of us don’t buy into any of the vile ideology, despite what’s being written in the media these days.

Why would you have Reform voters in your home? 🤢

I have tons of these people in my life -friends and unfortunately family, as I am very mixed. It's very easy to just say to strangers on the internet bin them or why are you friends with such people ? Because it fcking complicated Sally !!

I have a lifelong friend who is in a very precarious situation where she was brought over to the UK at 3 months old from Australia by her British mother in the very early 70's.
To this day, she has no real citizenship, no birth certificate, no idea who her father is, her mother isn't very forthcoming (and is quite old) and more importantly - has some very dodgy views about certain immigrants .

Like I said, it's complicated , and I'm glad she doesn't have the ability to vote because she could be a dinosaur voting for the asteroids.

Absolutely with her re immigration and reform. But a bit insensitive and rude with the line ‘you’ll be okay’ comment. If in fact the comment was made, and not just an add on to your post to whip up the weekly ‘Reform voters are racist’ posts. The thing is, people can and do have their own valid reasons for contemplating voting for Reform, but as with anything else, shouldn’t make throwaway comments on a personal level to anyone. Having said that, I certainly wouldn’t be discussing this kind of topic with someone who it seem is likely to not share the same political views. It will always have the potential to offend. Also, I don’t understand why you’ve been friends with someone and not had indications previously of their opinion on this issue? Sounds like she isn’t someone who holds back.

So what does immigration have to do with the thread then? OP is British. Friend implied she wasn’t properly. How do you feel about that?

What other reason than racism could you have for voting reform @Livelovebehappy ? Their policies are utter nonsense (and based, largely, on racism).

Someone voting Reform would definitely turn me off them

I'm always interested in why so many Reform types seem desperate to pretend that racism isn't real.

If they're willing to admit that they're going to vote for a party that has racism at its very core, what do they think this pretence is actually achieving? Do they think that the rest of us might stop noticing racism if they tell us that we're imagining it?

I don't have a feeling about it. Two sides to every story. If friend implied this, could it be that the OP's loyalties lie elsewhere? Skin tone has nothing to do with it. By loyalties I mean - she could be either too pro-Palestinian or too pro-Israeli (just an example) not in a general-type conversation sort of way, but by insisting that our government should do something or other either on the part of one or the other side or equally to get involved in wars to that other actors would benefit - not the UK. Immigration was implied everywhere in the thread.

So you are saying that if someone has an ethnic heritage from outside the U.K., but is a British citizen, they need to be careful what their opinions are or they become open to being not considered British?
That is what you have written here, to be clear. I’m asking if that’s what you meant or if you’ve explained yourself incredibly badly -if so can you explain in a way that doesn’t continue to make you sound like you think someone who is a British citizen could be considered less of a citizen?