To think my friend was racist, rude or both?

[RicottaOtter]

I was talking to a friend this morning. This friend is very concerned about excessive immigration to the UK, and plans to vote reform at the next general election because she believes only reform have the guts to tackle the problem properly. I was listening and not saying anything when this friend suddenly said, ‘Don’t worry - you’ll be okay, because of your husband, and you’re a mother to English children…’

I was gobsmacked at first - then realised she was talking about my ethnicity (one quarter English/one quarter white South African but originally English/half East European Jewish). I’ve lived in England my entire life and as far as I’m concerned I’m as English as this friend who was talking to me - whatever my ancestry might be.

Now, remember, this friend was (I think?) trying to be nice and reassuring (‘Don’t worry, you’ll* be okay’) - but I felt quite horrified and angry to have this said to me - am I being unreasonable?

On a purely simple level, I just do not tolerate any racism I hear, see etc around me. I will always call it out. You'd never know, to look at me, that I am 'other', but I am, and experienced some racism as a kid because of my background.
My kids (adults now) are mixed race, and I am prepared to be very militant on their behalf.
It's OK to be bothered by immigration, it's an unresolved issue, but it's not OK to go public with your private prejudices.

For a remark to be racist, it needs to contain a judgement value about ethnicity or skin color. Do you think that is the case?

IMHO your friend’s remarks might be more accurately construed as xenophobic. But no one here can really judge based on a snippet of reported speech.

Trust those fascists? I don’t think so.

I’m trying to work out if she’s racist or not. I’ve never thought she was, at all, before!

I think you know now!

Your friend is a racist and xenophobic idiot.

I would end the friendship over this.

I’ll put it this way. If the conversation was happening as you said, and I overheard it in a coffee shop, I would 100000% believe that person to be racist/xenophobic.

And it would add to my already quite enormous pile of fears that this country is spiraling headlong towards fascism.

Ask her exactly what she means. You’ll never enlighten her or change her attitude if you don’t have a reasoned discussion.

Which ones? I'm sure there are all flavours of white supremacists, but the most famous one I know of - Tommy Robinson - is quite keen on Reform if not actively a supporter (probably because he's far too dodgy to get away with being affiliated with a political party).

She has given you the gift of knowledge. She sees you as “other” and judges.

So now what are you going to do?

Maintain harmony and say nothing or walk away from her?

I doubt a conversation will make her think or change her opinions.

I used to get a version of that a fair bit as an Irish person in the UK — people would make remarks about ‘immigrants’ or ethnic minorities and then assure me obviously they didn’t mean me. I think I was supposed to be flattered and join in with othering the others.

The difference was that these people weren’t my friends, they were random racists met at bus stops or Brexit bigots at parish council meetings, who believed they were giving me the opportunity to align myself with the goodies, and sneer about dirty Asians.🙄

Oh DD gets this all the time. We are of Indian heritage, but she looks European because she is light skinned, light eyed and has a 'universal'name. So people tell her things like " We need to get the Indians out". And then she tells them.

Helps to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Bin your friend.

At best, you're being very naive.

The fact that they want to, and have said so, is enough. It changes the tenor of public conversation and opens a doorway even wider to a kind of othering, dehumanization, disregard for human rights, and isolationist policy which is absolutely out of the fascist playbook.

Reform are bad fucking news- for all of us. And the fact that so many “patriotic English” wearing their poppies and waving their flags, can’t see that the “war our boys fought for our freedoms” was against exactly this sort of disgusting bullshit, is ASTONISHING to me.

i say it often on here, but I really do despair.

I agree. I am going to do my version of walking away, which is incredibly polite and British but results in me not having to spend any more time with the person!

Is this the political equivalent of "I've got black friends"?

I've never met a Reform supporter who doesn't sort people into ok and not ok based on a yardstick they've taken to that persons skin colour, ethnicity and length of residence. If you want to be friends with Reform supporters all you can do is keep your fingers crossed you meet their bar.

This isn’t really the point though. It’s about the whole mood music of the debate, and people like OPs ‘friend’ saying things that are, to many people, racist and unacceptable.

The issue is that now the window of what it’s deemed acceptable to say, is shifting. And this shift is uncomfortable for many people in the UK. Especially if they were born abroad, or aren’t white, etc.

That will be the next step.

Commentators on the right are now openly saying that non-white people aren't British - Farage originally said that the British public "wouldn't accept" mass deportations" but now he's adopting that.

Reducing immigration won't actually make the country better in any way so the next people to blame will be all non-white people.

You’re not being unreasonable at all. What she said wasn’t “reassuring,” it was othering. Even if she didn’t intend to be racist, it was still rooted in the idea that you’re somehow less British and need “protecting” because of where your ancestors came from. That’s a very uncomfortable thing to hear, especially when you’ve lived here your whole life and see yourself as no different from anyone else.

The fact that she said you’ll be “okay because of your husband and children” makes it even worse. It implies your acceptance depends on who you’re married to or who you’ve given birth to, rather than the fact that you’re a citizen and belong here just as much as she does.

She might not have meant to offend you, but intention doesn’t erase the impact. Your reaction is completely normal. It’s upsetting when someone you consider a friend reveals they see you through a lens of “not quite one of us.” If you want to keep the friendship, it might be worth gently telling her how it made you feel, but you’re absolutely right to feel shocked and angry.

Tommy Robinson was a member of the BNP. It's pretty obvious what he stands for.

They do... stealing all their ideas.