To think my friend was racist, rude or both?

[RicottaOtter]

I was talking to a friend this morning. This friend is very concerned about excessive immigration to the UK, and plans to vote reform at the next general election because she believes only reform have the guts to tackle the problem properly. I was listening and not saying anything when this friend suddenly said, ‘Don’t worry - you’ll be okay, because of your husband, and you’re a mother to English children…’

I was gobsmacked at first - then realised she was talking about my ethnicity (one quarter English/one quarter white South African but originally English/half East European Jewish). I’ve lived in England my entire life and as far as I’m concerned I’m as English as this friend who was talking to me - whatever my ancestry might be.

Now, remember, this friend was (I think?) trying to be nice and reassuring (‘Don’t worry, you’ll* be okay’) - but I felt quite horrified and angry to have this said to me - am I being unreasonable?

Yes.

This.

Dump the 'friend'

They are only considering extending the time it takes to apply. The change would allow those who contribute more to the country to apply early which encourages those wanting to live here permanently.

You are incorrect. Zia Yusuf has even announced they may abolish ILR retrospectively. It will destroy the lives of many who have worked and contrubuted tax for years.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/reform-uk-ilr-immigration-policy-nigel-farage-b2831087.html

Which are only available to those earning a suggested £ 60 k a year. So if you have been here 20 years, retain your original citizenship because many countries do not allow dual citizenship, paid into tax and NI, have a British spouse and children, but don't earn enough or fall ill, you can still be turfed out.

Where’s the racist bit? Expecting your country to put its own citizens first and wanting illegal undocumented migrants removed is not racist. The country is in crisis. Every service is overwhelmed and it’s due to the fact that too many are taking from the system and not contributing anything to it.

Why should they when ILR was fully legal? Are you arguing that legal residence can be made illegal any time?

I think most do.

In Oz it is “PR” which has almost the same rights as citizenship.

Some don’t want that. They want to keep ILR.

Why is it madness to believe this. Reform has shifted from talking about illegal immigrants to those with permanent leave to remain.

We have heard the “send them back / deport them” comments whenever a black and brown Briton does something negative (and “negative” has a very broad definition - Laurence Fox recently called for Zarah Sultana to “be sent back where she comes from” and she is from Birmingham) and we already have a legal precedence for a born and bred Briton of foreign ancestry being stripped of their citizenship and left stateless.

The current rhetoric absolutely will leave a lot of “2nd generations” fearful that when so many on protests call for “remigration now” they are not just talking about illegal immigrants.

I have noticed there are a number of people who value animals more than humans.

Exactly..On this very thread posters have gone from supposedly being only against illegal immigration to calling for legal ILR holders to jump through hoops and likely end up being chucked out.

Who earns £60k in the UK?
Just be honest and say you want all foreigners out.

Ok. Your position is clear.
I continue to believe Reform voters are racist and this thread confirms it.

Why? Why should they need to especially if they do like to visit to see family and it may make a whole host of things difficult if they wish to visit / go on extended visits, have assets there or even wish to retire their decades down the line.

Multiple reasons: ease of visiting, they have assets there, may want to take extended trips, may want to / end up retiring there or simply want an easy escape plan if Britain turns into a fascist ethno state.

You can want to make somewhere your home but still not want to lose another citizenship.

And it won’t deal with issues as you cannot trust Reform not to simply cancel citizenship status of people they would rather not have here.

That poster wasn't talking about "undocumented illegal migrants". By definition, no one has a definite figure for how many there are. What is known is that many arrived legally, so were documented, have overstayed their visas so are now undocumented. That poster was, deliberately, describing asylum seekers as "illegals" and won't or can't see that "undocumented" does not mean arriving on a boat without a passport. Despite being told repeatedly that it's not illegal to seek asylum and that, thanks to deliberate (Tory) policy, arriving by boat across the channel is now the only way to do it - she has a view on non-white people claiming asylum and it's racist.

"Too many are taking from the system and not contributing". Lack of funding for public services isn't because of the roughly 110,000 people currently waiting for their asylum application to be settled (and those who don't get asylum status are removed from the country). It's because of years of deliberate underfunding of services, predominantly by Tory govts. I'll put money on that poster voting for one or more of those govts. The dire state of public finances isn't because of "migrants" or "asylum seekers". It's because of short-termist UK govt policy, failure to effectively structure the economy, global factors which impact us - and Brexit, which is costing an estimated £40bn a year in lost tax revenues, and an overall hit of 4% of GDP (currently £100bn) a year. I'll put money on that poster being a Brexit voter, cos "sovereignty's worth the cost". And now the accurate forwarnings of what Brexit would mean are coming into operation and she is directly affected - she's blaming her choice on "illegals". By whom she means, non-white people, purely because of their non-whiteness. Racist.

Ironically - or perhaps absolutely par for the course - that poster is one of those who take from the system and contribute nothing. Her choice to have children. Her choice to sit on her backside for three years waiting for the council (aka taxpayers) to provide her with her dream house. Why isn't she supporting the children she chose to have herself? Because, if she's going to judge others on the basis of crass stereotypes and ill-informed generalisations, she should expect others to judge her in exactly the same way.

I was more thinking you'd wait till she'd gone to post.

Because it's rude to be posting on social media when you have visitors. Basic manners.

Then add to that, posting about someone actually with you.

And what if Reform decides to strip them of their citizenship?
I'm a dual national (from birth, rather than through acquiring one citizenship) but the way the world is I'm definitely not giving up my non-UK citizenship.
I'm lucky in that neither of my citizenships make you choose: but some UK and other dual nationals who are born with both have to choose at 18. I'd hate to be in that position.

She could have been in bed?
When I have friends to stay we do have downtime when we might do some browsing or whatever anyway, it’s not necessarily rude. Plus it’s nowhere near as rude as suggesting OP, as a British Citizen, is only ‘fine’ because her husband is white British.