To think my friend was racist, rude or both?

[RicottaOtter]

I was talking to a friend this morning. This friend is very concerned about excessive immigration to the UK, and plans to vote reform at the next general election because she believes only reform have the guts to tackle the problem properly. I was listening and not saying anything when this friend suddenly said, ‘Don’t worry - you’ll be okay, because of your husband, and you’re a mother to English children…’

I was gobsmacked at first - then realised she was talking about my ethnicity (one quarter English/one quarter white South African but originally English/half East European Jewish). I’ve lived in England my entire life and as far as I’m concerned I’m as English as this friend who was talking to me - whatever my ancestry might be.

Now, remember, this friend was (I think?) trying to be nice and reassuring (‘Don’t worry, you’ll* be okay’) - but I felt quite horrified and angry to have this said to me - am I being unreasonable?

Mumsnetters are forever having these conversations with their‘friends’. They sound more like Blackadder’s Witchfinder Pursuivant. Of course racism and racists exist.

so this type of conversation could happen then? If racists exist (and have been emboldened by Farage and co)?

Grooming gangs are NOT a religious custom.

Oh, are you on the rota as well today? Didn't realise that there needed to be more than one racism denier on every thread.

Many OPs are written in this style. A friend suddenly exposes themselves as racist/a Trump supporter/Reform voter. Insert unacceptable label as desired. It gets tiresome.

Rota? What are you on about? I’m complaining about a particular type of faux naive OP. I could be wrong of course. It’s been known to happen. 🤣

It is the repeated refusal to believe that anyone could actually experience racism that I find tedious.

It's funny because all these people tend to insist that they do believe that racism exists. They just don't ever seem willing to accept that anyone is ever actually on the receiving end of it.

The open expression of racism is far more common than it ever used to be, so it's hardly surprising that people are hearing it from their friends and acquaintances for the first time. I don't believe that people are actually more racist than they used to be, but things which people would have been ashamed to express previously are now bandied about quite freely.

In my experience more and more people I thought weren’t racist are dropping racism into conversation. This country is lurching right and some people are cheering it on.

As I said further up the thread, there seem to be a bunch of people that take it in turns to ensure that doubt is cast on the validity of each and every post on MN which mentions racism.

In the context of what the OP’s friend said, this is not the point.

The friend was saying that the OP will ‘be ok’ not because of her nationality (British) but because even though, in the friend's view, the OP is some form of forrin or second generation immigrant she will be ‘ok’ because she has, in the friend's view, a properly British (white / not Jewish / no ME heritage) DH.

Racist, rude and thick.

So your defence of Reform policies sounds disingenuous.

But racism exists everywhere and I have not denied it. Do acquaintances really start conversations like this. I tend to avoid discussing politics and religion. Life is easier that way.

I’m similar to you, as I’m half Czech. I’m glad I gave up my maiden name, which is obviously Eastern European. My married name is traditionally English so no one knows my ethnicity until I choose to mention it! (This wouldn’t be possible if I wasn’t white, obviously.)

My DSis has been more open about it and has been told that she’s ‘lucky’ to be able to live here.

in whichever dreary bit of middle England you inhabit.

LOL at the snobbery of that.

Your friend is one of the reasons my mixed race British born ds (me British, husband Indian but been in the UK 25 years) said to me that if Reform gets in he wants to leave the UK as it will be horrific for the likes of him.

Well, I've said YANBU, but it does strike me you were shutting up and going along with it until you realised she counts YOU as one of the "aliens". Maybe next time get outraged a little bit earlier in the conversation? Oh, and dump her.

This is rubbish, local police were very much part of being predatory with female children brought to their attention ...the common denominator is men not religion

Really? It sounds as though your friendships are a bit shallow. Me and my friends argue about all that sort of shit. We don’t agree on everything, but we’re big enough to accept that. None of them are Reform racists though…

I agree. It's really disheartening to read this. We're largely a nation of immigrants.

Educate yourself so you would not embarrass yourself with 'nation of immigrants' in conversations - try books by Bryan Sykes, Stephen Oppenheimer, David Conway.

In what way aren’t we?
Embarrassing not to know that.

Anglo Saxons came from what is now Germany. Vikings mostly from Denmark, Normans and Huguenots from France. And that's just by C15th/C16th. Some of them did quite a lot of conquering.

Oh and we English originally came from south western Europe.

An immigrant is someone who comes to live in a foreign country permanently. GB is a nation of immigrants. People immigrated at different times, of course but it doesn't make it less correct to say this.

Lots of people discuss politics (and indeed religion). And it has become increasingly easy in our society for people to express their racist views freely.

Do you imagine that every conversation is made up if it doesn't resemble any of the conversations that you have had personally with the people you know?

Educate yourself and don't embarrass yourself.