To not want my friends nanny on holiday with us?

[Hungryhippos123]

We are meeting in Spain in May half term- me and my kids, a friend who lives in spain with her two kids and a friend from KSA who has 2 kids (just mums and kids- all age 5-10 and get on well!).
Our friend from KSA has just told us she plans to bring her nanny/maid with her. Shes a lovely Filipino lady (I have never met her but friend raves about her) as friend wants help with the kids.
I find it really uncomfortable and dont know why or if I should say no. I get that help is nice but we will all be there and her kids arent naughty or anything just normal kids! She said her nanny can help with all the kids and cook etc which I know is her norm but I find really uncomfortable. The whole dynamic will feel different and I will feel bad that the nanny will be sleeping in an office room on a blow up bed (again friend said would be fine).
AIBU? Should I just enjoy the extra help or would it bother you?

Aside from the potential exploitation issue, if you agree to go on a group holiday, then it’s cheeky to ask another person without checking with the other guests first; it changes the whole dynamic.

Second, I would be asking a few questions before making my decision. First, there are no circumstances in which I would countenance the nanny engaging in unpaid labour looking after additional children. And that’s what would effectively happen unless the kids are with the parent 100 per cent of the time and not all running about in a group. You’d need to be very clear about expectations. Nanny will hardly be able to ignore the other children. So you’d have to pay her and ask about rates etc.

Third, it’s just unacceptable to expect nanny to sleep on a blowup bed. Shocking. - a kid maybe yes. Not an adult.

And much depends on the friend’s relationship with and treatment of nanny. Does she in fact hold the position of trusted member of the family? bed suggestion suggests not, but I’d want to guage how friend regards her.

It could be an opportunity for the nanny to see somewhere else, earn some extra cash or have a rest - but alternatively, friend could be treating her as a lesser skivvy.

I agree that many women choose and want this work, even under the conditions that usually apply, however I entirely disagree with your conclusion that it isn’t really exploitation. It absolutely is exploitation.

Children weren’t forced to work in mills and down mines, hundreds of thousands of people “chose” to work up 16 hours a day before legislation prohibiting it came in to force in the 19th century. Some Quaker business owners chose to offer better conditions.

This friend has choices, she could employ a nanny on terms similar to what a nanny and employer expect in Europe or North America. They can probably afford to do that, but they are happy to exploit the situation that exists with migrant workers in the KSA.

It sound likes an ideal opportunity for the nanny to have a paid holiday back with her own family, or alternatively in a location of her choice rather than being taken to Spain to be exploited by 3 families instead of one. I wouldn’t be part of it.

You’ve got no idea how much the Nanny gets paid? I’ve known people with similar nanny arrangements and the nanny gets paid amounts that are revered on here as though the salary equates to being Elon Musk.

I’ve been around quite a few nanny’s based in KSA. If she does come with your friend don’t allow her to look after anyone else’s kids, treat her well and see if you can give her a break. They work long hours most have their own kids in the Philippines some no older than the ones they’re paid to look after.

I’ve known some who are treated as an extension of the family and some who are the low paid do everything help. Regardless, their life is not their own and they do it to give their own families a better life.

Treat her kindly, even better get your friend to give her the time off.

I understand your point, and as I said, I'm sure the nanny is being treated fairly in this case (although the blow-up bed in the office sound a bit of a second-class kind of treatment). However, many migrant workers are exploited in KSA, and personally I just wouldn't want to feel I was supporting that regime in any way. So it would bother me, which is the question the OP was asking.

I would be very uncomfortable with this. Why can’t your friend look after her own children on holiday? I understand having a nanny to do the childcare while you’re at work, but not on holiday. Will she have the children dressed nicely and brought to her for an hour before dinner and then taken away again? 🙄. Absolutely not okay to make the nanny sleep on an air bed. She’s being treated like a second class citizen.

Oh no I wouldn't like that at all, can't your friend look after her own children and give the "servant " the week off,

Do you really think “friend” is offering this nanny who is also the cook double or triple pay for this trip where she has volunteered her assistance to the whole group?

Would a professional nanny on a nanny’s wages be sleeping on a blow up mattress without a bedroom?

Yabu, I’ve done this before. Meant we had a bloody good holiday. I could have a proper conversation, good night out, kids always have an adult with them, etc.
It’s her choice, and the kids are probably used to her as well. If it makes their lives easier why not.

I agree with you. I don’t understand those saying it’s not your business. When the holiday was first planned presumably there was no mention of the nanny. You’re right that it changes the whole dynamic and I wouldn't like it, any more than I would like one of my friends bringing any complete stranger on a joint holiday (and that’s quite apart from your discomfort at having to include someone not being treated as an equal).

I would enlist the support of the other friend (assuming she feels the same) and both of you tell your friend that you’re not happy with the nanny idea, it's not what you agreed to and you’d rather she didn’t come.

Why on earth wouldn’t you want the nanny? Make a holiday for yourself!

Can you imagine the uproar if a Brittish nanny had to sleep on a blow up bed ! Or if a mumsnetters dd was aupairing but had to.sleep in the office room on the blow up.bed whilst the family had nice rooms,

This would also make me feel uncomfortable. The whole 'she doesn't mind!' sleeping on the floor or looking after 3x as many kids as normal. She might, she might not, but it's doubtful that she is in a position as an employee in that country, to say 'sorry (Hungryhippos friend) that's way outside my job description, I'm staying at home/ I'll only come if you pay me triple' because the relationship is likley to be completely unequal.

Would you be able to say something along the lines of you know that this set up is normal where she lives but you feel a bit uncomfortable with someone staying with you without a proper bedroom running around after you'd kids while yoh relax. Or that you're happy to take turns cooking for the kids and taking the opportunity to spend some time with them etc? And if she does end up looking after your kids I'd be wanting to make sure that she was compensated properly for having her workload massively increased so I'd suggest (in advance) clubbing together with the other mum to pay the extra and asking your KSA friend how much she suggests would be fair. Her answer will tell you a lot - if she says she has already agreed something with the nanny (extra holiday, a bonus, etc) then I'd be more comfortable. If she says 'oh no it's part of her duties and she's happy to do it,' I would be extremely uncomfortable and feel like I was taking advantage

I'd be uncomfortable with this. A blow up bed in the office? No.

People will differentiate on this one...but personally speaking I couldn't get with that.

This reflects my feelings really.
Friend does work sporadically in KSA but doing social media stuff. I can see why she 'needs' a nanny there as she doesnt have family help (neither do we in Uk tbf we use holiday and wraparound but thats not as abundant in KSA) and culturally its the done thing there.
It just feels awkward bringing her on our holiday- as you say its sad in a way she cant have the kids for a week without help (we would help of course! all mucking in). I love cooking so she wouldnt be cooking for us all week.
I get those saying I have no control which is fair but if I wanted to bring say, my sister to help with the kids, I would run it past the others first!

You seem to be assuming this woman is being abused, with no actual evidence of that.

Do you consider your own job to be exploitation? Like being made to work down a mine?

Its very normal across the world for wealthier people (and tbh middle class households) to have household staff to help with childcare, cleaning,
cooking etc.

You have no idea on what terms or salary on which she’s been employed.

If OP isn’t comfortable with an extra person there as an employee, fair enough. But the assumption the nanny is in a terrible situation is a bit far-fetched based on what we know.

Many people holiday in groups including grandparents in the hope and expectation that the hard working parents are offered some babysitting to have a much deserved day or evening or two off. Likewise many people use holiday clubs etc. How us using a nanny different? Isn’t it safer?

I had fairly easy kids and used holiday clubs at hotels very rarely and only to help kids make friends as I was always dubious about the caregivers - being unable to rely on the same laws, ratios, safeguarding, cultural norms wtc as at home.

However I don’t judge people who want some time off on holiday! And a nanny who knows the kids and you trust is a good option provided she’s not in solo charge the majority of the time, is well treated and properly remunerated and gets time off.

Agree about the bed though - see above!!

If she is pretty she will probably enhance the holiday.

I wouldn’t like this. How committed are you financially? Can you just drop out?

I take your friend doesnt really parent her kids much? Surely she can give her nanny a few days hoilday? Yanbu.

But if the friend wanted to bring her nanny she should have mentioned it when the holiday was first planned, to see if the others objected to a stranger being there, not suddenly presented it as a fact accompli. It changes the whole dynamic of the holiday.

It would bother me and I wouldn't want to go on holiday with this friend, whether she dragged her poor exploited "ok to sleep on a blow up bed" nanny with her or not.

Grandparents have a choice in going on holiday and doing a bit of childcare. Do you think the nanny has a choice?

My parents and my husband’s mum have come on holiday with us several times, but it’s to enjoy spending time together, we don’t get them to babysit.