To not want my friends nanny on holiday with us?

[Hungryhippos123]

We are meeting in Spain in May half term- me and my kids, a friend who lives in spain with her two kids and a friend from KSA who has 2 kids (just mums and kids- all age 5-10 and get on well!).
Our friend from KSA has just told us she plans to bring her nanny/maid with her. Shes a lovely Filipino lady (I have never met her but friend raves about her) as friend wants help with the kids.
I find it really uncomfortable and dont know why or if I should say no. I get that help is nice but we will all be there and her kids arent naughty or anything just normal kids! She said her nanny can help with all the kids and cook etc which I know is her norm but I find really uncomfortable. The whole dynamic will feel different and I will feel bad that the nanny will be sleeping in an office room on a blow up bed (again friend said would be fine).
AIBU? Should I just enjoy the extra help or would it bother you?

The fact your friend expects her nanny to steep on a blow up bed, while being there to work and not only care for her normal charges but other children AND cook for you all, would make me question being a friend with someone like that.

While you can't control what she does, I'd ask her whether there could be proper accommodation your friend books for the nanny, whether she will be compensated appropriately and whether nanny would receive days off on this holiday and not expected to work the whole week. Based on her answers, I'd like have a few choice words and if I found out the nanny really was being treated like this, I'd say I can't be part of a trip that mistreats someone.

Fillipino fnannies have a long history of being mistreated and overworked by western families. I've read several first hand accounts on it and there is a fabulous documentary brining the situation to light. I had some choice words with a friend who was having their nanny work 12 hour days, sand and stain their deck, have their children overnight, wash their external windows using a rented ladder etc. She was paying her minimum wage minus food/board. It was sickening. Not saying your friend is the same, but I'd have questions...

I agree
is this actually a nanny,
with nanny T+C’s
or a dogsbody / lacky ??
ugh

We don't know that the nanny will not be given time out. I imagine she most certainly will be.

My gripe with the posters here is the leap to slavery.

My own personal experience of such a scenario is that this loved and respected lady will have a lot of time off.

I can also jump to conclusions. Difference is, mine are lived ones, based on experience and knowledge. Not random ideas, projections and accusations.

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like @Hungryhippos123 based on this post she made.

Poor Nanny? It’s literally her job! I have nanny friends who get to go to amazing leaves with their rich employers and don’t even have to do that much work. Lots of them are living the dream!

@goingoffonatangentagain thank you for the linked article. I read it and the three related articles. Very moving and very enlightening. This sharing is one of my favorite things about MN…literally and figuratively linking me to knowledge I might not find on my own. Whenever I tire of cruel responses or seemingly obtuse readers I come across a nugget like your post and I think…yes this is why I read posts.

Also, I sleep on a blow up bed every time I visit my family. It’s really not that deep! It’s not sleeping on a rock!

I meant places not leaves 😂

But @Eleos you're not the friend. The OP might feel absolutely fine about it, if it were you, because she would be reassured that the nanny would be well-treated.

I'm from a long line of domestic workers - I don't have to have been a nanny in Saudi Arabia, or someone who employed a nanny in Saudi Arabia, to comment on what might reassure the OP.

And @whatcanthematterbe81 that's fine - that's your choice! It's not so fine if the person sleeping on a blow-up bed isn't in a position to complain.

Flying tomorrow. A blow up bed awaits me at my mums.

Feel like I should look at her differently now.

Except, I am not a dick and it is perfectly comfortable.

im honestly so confused why a blow up bed is so bad. Unless it’s a really shitty one, they’re just beds! I think a lot of people have made their minds up but I know people who do this for a job and they love it. I know if the employer is a twat that’s different but this is a JOB. We all get given a little more than our normal workload every so often in work, unless theyre being mistreated then this is no different.

I think lots here can’t fathom the idea of having this kind of help, and that ok but assuming it’s like slavery is mental

your Mum is the worst 😂. Hopefully she’s not going to ask you to cook anything and then have the cheek to pay you for it too!

Are you a Filipino lady employed in one of the countries mentioned?

Having a history in domestic work doesn't mean you are qualified to substantiate the OP's position.

It irks that women from Britain think they know best for the women of countries like the Philippines, yet I am certain, do nothing more for them, than virtual signal on here.

Clueless, ridiculous and hypocritical.

I would feel a bit puzzled as to why she can't just enjoy the holiday with her kids without expecting someone else to look after them, and more, and to serve food etc. While at work and needing help at home, fine, but this is excessive and unnecessary. It's precious time to bond, be a family, not offload to someone else.

I agree, was she given the choice to extend her services to friends for childcare and cooking, probably washing up as well.

@whatcanthematterbe81 It's not 'just a job' though if you have very few meaningful alternatives. It's not a perfectly free market where the market rate is fair and just.

There's a long history of domestic workers being exploited, whether from the Global South or not, so it's not unreasonable to think it's not impossible in this case.

In Britain, young women exited domestic work very promptly as soon as they had alternatives. Monica Dickens' One Pair of Hands gives great insight into the banality of poor treatment by employers.

But do we know this is the case? My Nanny friends earn £16 an hour, which I know isn’t loads but it’s a lot more than minimum wage. And honestly they would be offended at how some are making this job out to be exploitation. They love their work and the family relationship etc.

Why can't they hire these women and give them the sort of working conditions that they would be required to give them in the UK?

Why can't they rent holiday accommodation with enough room for the nanny to have a proper bedroom with the extra cost paid for by OP's friend?

Just because people move from the UK to countries with no employment rights for domestic workers doesn't mean that they have to exploit these women when they could give them decent working conditions. It's a choice that they are making.

Ok so your employer sends you on a work conference. You’re on call 24 hours running after a client, and they bring other clients so you can do their work too.

they won’t pay for a hotel, you get a blow up bed in the office.

but it’s ok because they’re sending you abroad. Not that you’ll get to see any of it because you won’t get any free time, you’ll be in the office building.

yeah. Not on. She’s not a friend or family choosing to spend time with them and putting up with the blow up bed because she’s getting to see her family for free, she’s a paid, working member of staff.

people used to say similar things about black South Africans working for white families in the days of apartheid. Oh we treat them like family, they love working for us etc etc. no, they want pensions, annual leave, and workers rights.

I’ll set the ‘virtual signaller’ (!!) comment aside since it’s distracting from the core ethical issue the OP raised.

The issue is not about whether the nanny wants this job - or whether I or you would find sleeping on a blow-up bed acceptable.

The issue is about an employer's responsibilities. The OP is right to feel uncomfortable about a potential imbalance of power and fairness, and to want reassurance that the nanny will be fairly treated.

Saying someone is 'lucky' to have a job because it helps their family is true for many working people globally. But economic necessity does not negate an employer's obligation to provide working conditions that meet basic standards of respect, privacy, and fair compensation.

A paid holiday worker being housed in a non-private common area (like a study) is generally considered sub-standard accommodation for an adult employee, regardless of whether that employee feels grateful for the opportunity.

The fact that the OP is not confident the arrangement is fair is exactly why she is right to feel uneasy. Her unease reflects an ethical obligation to question potential exploitation.

The OP's problem is valid. She is being put in a position of complicity with an arrangement she feels is potentially exploitative, and she is not unreasonable for wanting to avoid that.

Ok so I know it seems wierd but the KSA friend will be so used to having this nanny, she won’t want the extra work! If you aren’t used to having help, I totally get why it seems awkward, but they’re there working, but to be your friend. Doesn’t mean they won’t speak and be pleasant but also unlikely they’ll be sat by the pool with you drinking margaritas! They’ll keep themselves to themselves. She will probably just cook for all the kids etc, I’d be delighted if one of my friends was prepared to go to the expense of bringing the nanny! Less work for me! I’m used to having a private cook and other help though so it seems more normal to me.

How much extra will she be paying her maid for the extra cooking/childcare/cleaning.

how much is she expecting the other parents to contribute.

I’m sure your friends are. Where have I said that many Nannies don’t have a lovely job and an exciting life!?
Does this nanny sounds like that’s what is happening to her?? Do your friends often sleep in offices on the floor?? Are they often expected to care for several extra and unknown kids?? Cook for 9?? No? I doubt it!

But these 2 situations are not comparable. Your mum is not your employer.
I have slept on blow up beds. It’s perfectly ok in a situation such as visiting family and space is limited.
On the other hand I’d be pissed off if I was made to go abroad for work, everyone else had their own bedroom and was stuck on the blow up mattress..
can you really not see that?
Having a nanny, fine, taking the nanny with you, fine, treating that nanny like a second class citizen and expecting her to be happy about it, not fine.

It's strange how people talk here about Filipina women like they are some homogenous group too. I work with a Filipina woman, she is a skilled professional and if her job suddenly involved doing three times as much work - essentially being outsourced to her employer's mates - then she would have the right to complain, and she would. Obviously the KSA has fewer rights - that's hardly a secret and expat going there is there for the money and not any higher calling, but that doesn't make it OK in Spain in a friendship group for all the guests to suddenly buy into that mindset, or easy.

But apparently because it's the KSA it's OK, that's just the way it is. And to point out the exploitation is being a white saviour, virtue signalling or "sitting with uncomfortable feelings" or whatever some self justifying poster came out with...

Maybe it is, but if it was my holiday and a friend brought along her help with the promise that she'd be able to help with "all the kids" I'd feel uncomfortable. I'm not naive and I'm not trying to save the world, I'm just not a dick and in the same way I wouldn't ask the neighbour's gardener to mow my lawn I wouldn't expect her to help with my kids....

There are ways to treat a nanny. One of the most important ones is giving them a private sleeping space and the other is not expecting them to help with other people’s children outside the home. Your friend is not treating her nanny appropriately.