The current state of MN and how do I stop reading?

[Westpoint]

I actually don't know where to start......

But WTF is happening recently? I mean I know AIBU isn't for the faint of heart but the pile on's have become ridiculous. For the experienced posters the ignore tactic works ok but the vitriol for no bloody reason whatsoever just kills the thread.

Yet I keep on reading?

I have a pretty full life but when I log on I do tend to come here and I'm often left with a really bad taste in my mouth.

Why are people just so combative these days?

I do realise the futility in posting this. Maybe I just need a massive boot up the arse (I'm sure I do).

What do people get from being so nasty?

It actually just makes me really sad. Yes, that's my problem I get it. It's just all so stupid, petty and a waste of everyone's time.

Anyway, that's my rant. Prepared to be unnecessarily flamed (well, I'm not actually, it will hurt my feelings but it's going to happen isn't it? I mean, I could post that puppies are cute and fluffy but some miserable cunt will come along along and tell me that their arse's stink, they shit all over their school run and because they are allergic NO-ONE should enjoy them).

This place really has become a victim of it's own success.

I think I might be out but it's hard to let go. I joined 15 years ago!

have started a thread on Site Stuff

Tighter moderation - 2 suggestions | Mumsnet

I've just started a thread in Site Stuff asking if it's possible.

I’m glad that MNHQ has noticed it too. I’ve been here a few years now (frequent name changer) but I once was the recipient of a pile on and it was really upsetting. I posted what I thought was a light hearted thread about food and it ended with someone calling me a stuck up bitch. I hardly said anything on the thread at all! This person was joined by others and I could barely believe how nasty it became. I asked for the thread to be removed because I decided to not comment further but now ‘the gang’ had decided I was a troll. I don’t struggle with MH but I could see how if you did, a pile on like this might really push you into a very dark place. There is just no reason for it.

There should always be room for debate and honest opinions but pointless nastiness and name calling isn’t necessary.

It has always been like like this as far back as I can remember, 12 years or so. Back then there was a core group of bullies who would all pile on to a thread to collectively tear the OP to shreds. It was like they sent out a beacon or something. Think a few of them eventually got banned and went off to Reddit to start a sub form where they could continue to slag off mumsnetters. It was very unpleasant.

Yes, I remember that when I joined about 14 years ago.

If you disagreed with one poster in that group, it was like a call to arms was sent out and they'd all come piling in 🤦‍♀️

But thankfully they eventually dissipated and I think MNHQ took a firmer stance.

I don't agree. Too many posts are antagonistic and too many are from a female viewpiont. Think about the MiL bashing that goes on, the step mum bashing. All from a female perspective about other females.

Women showing how awful they can be to other women, sadly.

I once posted about my son and the parental alienation he was experiencing, how we had also been denied contact with our grandchildren. I was drawn in, defending him and us. The more details I gave to justify our ordinary family life, our decent professions which required high level safeguarding checks, our communication and impartiality in trying to maintain an unbiased stance the more I was ripped apart.

My son has died since. The horror i was out through on here is a stark reminder of what he went through.

Is this definitely a bot or could it be a 'shapeshifting' human poster, so to speak?

I think what doesn't help is that there is such a plethora of 'ThatAngryAzureZebra' type usernames now it's near impossible to get a sense of anyone's posting style. (Apologies if anyone actually has that username and is a legit poster, btw. 😄)

@ruethewhirl I don't know, it could be either I guess. A journalist doing research maybe. Either way someone or something name changes every day and starts these similar threads. Unlike others I am very bad at picking up on AI v real so couldn't say really.

It's quite subtle, isn't it. I've seen quite a few posts of the type you describe though and agree some sort of pattern is being followed, it's quite insidious.

I’d welcome more moderation from MNHQ. I regularly report nasty comments even if they aren’t actually personal attacks and they are often removed. The trouble is that nasty posts encourage more nasty posts and threads just get worse and worse.

MN has always been a viper pit, there's always been a core of righteous, holier than thou posters who try and rule the roost, stalk, and bully people.

Thing is now, there are more of them doing it.

There DID used to be community, those of us who recognised each other across the boards.. now i don't know who anyone is, don't feel close to anyone, and don't trust anyone, despite having been here since 2006 and recognising a lot of long term names.

I got my fingers burned badly by people on here. I can be blunt, but i do try and apologise.. a lot of the time now its because i don't have much tolerance for plain stupidity and han wringing 'woe is me'

I think a lot of older, long term posters have some sympathy fatigue and also think most people are either trolling, or are wary of national shit rags trawling for stories.

Agreed.

I have assumed that given less traffic, MN pay people to start controversial posts, just for traffic (and ad. Revenue) but that those being paid take the easy way out and use AI. The OP hardly ever returns, first post ends with something like ‘share your views’ of ‘discuss’.

I think similar about the plethora of ‘easy’ threads - controversial baby names always gets loads of clicks, MiL issues and Christmas tree up in November…too.

Some things that I feel would improve the site if you're serious about it @JustineMumsnet

Posters that get posts deleted should get an immediate notification telling them that their post has been deleted and why (what site rule they broke).

Posters that constantly change debate into personal attacks should be given warnings and their accounts suspended quicker than they are, and the process should be transparent.

I post on the Conflict in the Middle East board, which is a controversial one. I can't believe how some posters are still allowed to post on there when they routinely turn every thread into a reason to make personal attacks or digs at other users. They get plenty of posts deleted but never seem to get removed from MN. It makes it an unpleasant board for anyone feeling a bit sensitive and drives away a lot of potential users who could contribute to the debate.

Sometimes I report posts and get advised to engage with the person to challenge their post. When that happens I generally feel that the Mod hasn't read the whole thread, just that one comment. If they had read the whole thread they would be able to understand that the poster I've reported is clearly looking for a fight & being antagonistic to multiple people, so it's not great advice to engage further with someone like that.

Wow I'm pretty impressed MNs have mentioned they have noticed it. Maybe it's impacting the site ie less posts, engagement.

There are many threads I avoid now as I know how it will go. I recently made the mistake of going onto a Meghan thread (thought it was about fashion). The are bullies on those threads constantly.

I had been wondering if it was younger posters as I assumed that new generations of mums must have joined the original groups of us with older teens, and grown children .

I think there’s a an extra demographic being discussed here, not so much the holier than thou ones but the plain nasty and callous responders. The others I notice are those that are clearly men, in the sense they’re vicious on child support type threads or desperate to share unasked for sexual information and then get off on accusing everyone of ‘kink-shaming’ them. Between those two groups I’ve definitely rethought hanging around.

It definitely has changed, without doubt. I’ve been here some years too, and, for example, never seen openly racist posts before this last year or so. Hopefully Mumsnet will do proper research on this, and not use lobbying posts to aid their decision making.

Some things that need to change (at least!) @JustineMumsnet:

First, stop telling posters that they need to challenge other posters on the thread.

Many people don’t bother to report - and hiding the report button is only going to make this more likely. I’ve read what you’ve said about the number of reports not changing but I don’t actually believe that to be true.

If someone has taken the time to find the report button, report and also given you a reason why they’re reporting, then they need a better, more helpful response. Essentially this kind of reply is a moderator who sounds like they can’t be bothered to do their job, and is dismissive of a poster’s concerns.

Second, stop using the patronising suggestion that if we don’t like a thread/post we don’t have to read it.

Again, this is a dereliction of duty. Do something about it. Read the whole thread and not just the specific post that’s been reported. Check out that poster’s other posts and those on other threads. (I’d like to think that the moderators do do this, but if you get this kind of response when you’ve reported something, I wonder if it does actually happen?)

Third, read a report about a poster in the fullest context.

It’s very obvious when this hasn’t happened. And it’s insulting to your members. Make sure that the moderator reads the full thread, so that they see the report through the reporter’s eyes. It should also be by reading contributions made on other threads by that poster - in all their usernames, (which obviously other posters can’t see).

Fourth, give reporters a proper response.

Whether or not you get a reply from MNHQ after you’ve reported something does seem to vary. But I think if anyone has taken the time and trouble to report a post/poster, they are due a response - and not just the autogenerated one. If the moderator decides not to take action, please tell the reporter why. I don’t know why this inconsistency happens, and I wonder if it depends which moderator(s) is/are on duty?

Overall, it’s good that there is a recognition that things have changed for the worse on Mumsnet, and an acknowledgement that things have to improve. But I wonder how much - in reality - you’re going to be able to change things? Better, more nuanced (and skilled) moderation takes time - and I have had replies from MNHQ saying how busy the team is, so I wonder how this is going to be achieved?

Yes, those threads are absolutely disgusting.

I realise, of course, that my post is all about moderation - and it should also be said that it’s not just about the MNHQ team, it's also about our responsibilities as posters.

if anything they need to stop telling us to challenge on the thread, because often when we do, its dancing a fine line of not getting ourselves deleted.. and how are we meant to challenge an obvious troll without getting done for troll hunting.

BIWI, I completely agree with all of your suggestions, particularly the first. If a user has been moved enough to report - and that can take a lot, given reporting can have repercussions for the reporter - a glib response from MN such as “challenge on the thread” is not just irritating, it’s shifting responsibility. You have a poster that is a problem, may have been a problem for some time, and if you don’t act will continue being so. My challenging them on one thread won’t their behaviour.

Exactly… we’re encouraged to argue with posters we already feel are crossing lines with regard to rules . The rule break I most often report is personal attacks. So effectively the mods are telling me to argue further with people who use person attacks as a weapon. Then if I fight back in the same way I will probably get posts deleted & threats of suspension myself.

I had a comment deleted a few weeks ago because it was considered to be a personal attack. The poster had kind of singled me out on the thread to take issue with, despite the fact that there were loads of other posters saying similar. She kept sniping at me and I answered her a couple of times, then eventually I bit back, telling her she was rude and patronising. Apparently that counts as a personal attack. She told me as much, warned me that she was going to report me, then did so. And my comment was deleted. I think I should have been more careful (as she was) and said that her comments were rude and patronising rather than her as a person. But it seemed such an innocuous remark in the grand scheme of things. I actually wanted to say worse but held back! I have seen much much worse left to stand. But then maybe the comments weren't reported.