To think gentle parenting has made some kids unbearable to be around?

[KindButFirmFox]

Boundaries aren’t oppression.
Sometimes “gentle” just looks like “ineffective”.

AIBU to think balance has been lost between empathy and discipline?

THANK YOU! The voice of reason, at last.

Right, well where I live physical punishment is illegal.

That's not a voice of reason. Spanking is physical abuse. It's illegal where I live.

It's an academic discussion for me, anyway, because I never really wanted kids and am post-menopausal now. I wouldn't have had the patience for parenting.

You do think it's ok to physically abuse others though.

I do wonder sometimes if people who are against any form of mild physical chastisement simply have easy children. What if you have a seriously naughty one, who will not listen, ever?

If mild open-handed chastisement on the butt to cause a shock, not an injury, when a child is being seriously naughty and nothing else works, then yes, I suppose I do.

You may not go around hitting people, but you advocate for hitting defenceless children.

If you don't do your job correctly, is it appropriate for your boss to smack you?

If you forgot to do a household task or did it incorrectly, would it be ok for your spouse to smack you?

It's physical abuse, not matter how you try to dusguise it. It's never justifiable for an adult to hit a child as a form of punishment.

Hitting a child won't make them listen or get to the route of the apparent naughtiness.

How did you handle teens? When he wanted to be independent more? Curfews? @Neurodiversitydoctor

I am not responsible for the safety, welfare, or upbringing of my spouse or boss, am I? Whereas I would be for children. Additionally, I can reason with my spouse or boss, whereas children don't have adult reasoning powers. I highly doubt that my spouse or boss would key my car or throw a toy truck at my head or write on my walls. And I am not responsible for how my spouse or boss turns out as an adult.

Your comparison is meaningless.

I disagree. If a child was really wilfully naughty, a short sharp smack on the butt can be very effective.

Like I said, it's academic anyway, because I never really wanted kids and am now post-menopausal. Guess what, I knew I wouldn't have the patience.

How can you feel responsible for safety or wellbeing and think physical violence is acceptable?

It's effective in causing pain and fear, that should never be your motive when disciplining a child.

Like I've said ad nauseam, I would only use it in extremis, if they were really naughty, and if the child was the type whom no amount of reasoning or consequences made any difference.

I mean, I come from a whole generation (born in the Seventies) that was spanked occasionally if we were really naughty, and we are not all out here hitting everyone and thinking that adults hitting each other is OK. Neither are we all scarred for life.

As a teacher, this is definitely true for me. I trained in a tough school in London and was confident about being firm but fair, maintaining appropriate boundaries. I moved cities and schools and my current one - much better behaviour - there are so many staff that seem to tiptoe around parents. It makes me much less confident because I know I won't be backed up if for example, I gave a deserved detention but forgot to update the sanction written on the board. A parent has actually complained that I didn't write a detention on the board and the detention was deleted - even though I had, and it remained written there when a staff member spoke to me about it!

A colleague wrote on some tests of students getting less than 40% something like "you need to revise more" and the students went and filed a written complaint against him.

I could go on! It's a shame as there are so many students who can take an (appropriate) joke, like a bit of back and forth humour and straight talking. It does help build relationships and diffuse conflict.

On this thread's topic, I have one DC that's a baby so let's see how I end up parenting. I do know one parent who'll stay sat down at the library as her daughter goes round tearing books and posters off the shelves, calling "_, gentle hands!"

Did you choose not to have children @Horsie ?

How do you know given you don’t have children and have presumably never (I hope not!!) smacked any child on the butt @Horsie ?

I wish you'd stop usjng thac stupid word - spanking is physical violence and it never justified. I'd argue thaf it has harmed you because you think it's ok to physically abuse children.

Mostly.

Yes. Feral kids everywhere now. 🙄

So everything you say - is theoretical

You have never smacked a child
You have never experienced whether it “works” or not

. If a child was really wilfully naughty, a short sharp smack on the butt can be very effective.

how do you know @Horsie ?

I don't know for sure. It's all academic since I'm post-menopausal. No, I've never smacked a child. Why would I, since I'm not responsible for any child's behaviour and outcmes? If I had kids, I'm hardly saying that smacking would be my go-to! I would hope to have children that you could reason with. But I'm being honest and saying that there are probably some extreme scenarios where I might give them an open-handed smack on the butt - to shock, not injure.