To think gentle parenting has made some kids unbearable to be around?

[KindButFirmFox]

Boundaries aren’t oppression.
Sometimes “gentle” just looks like “ineffective”.

AIBU to think balance has been lost between empathy and discipline?

None of that is gentle parenting

Actually making a child apologize is the opposite of gentle parenting. In that situation I'd explain we don't snatcg, take item and give back to child snatched from and ID apologise. Then deal with any upset from my own child.

The crumbs, I'd attempt to get my child to clean up. Then I'd start and tell them if they helped it would be a great way of sorting the problem out, but there's no point forcing.

The shoes and coat. They need to go on (actually not always the coat, they can go out coatless and decide if they're cold) but the shoes I say 'if you can't do it yourself I will have to put the shoes on as they do need to go on' and if needed get the shoes on however they go on. Again sometimes on a front doorstep to demonstrate shoes are needed.

Your pal wasn't gentle parenting

You want to try teaching them!

Because that’s the language people use when describing it, even when what they’re going isn’t true gentle parenting. I’m referring to the way the concept gets watered down or misapplied, not the genuine philosophy itself.

It sounds like everyone is saying I gentle parent my children you permissive parent/ spoil your kids

It's an overcorrection.

Previous parenting style was generating a significant proportion of people pleasers who are so conflict avoidant that they wouldn't say anything if the cashier returned them 20£ less than they should.

It's hard to get the balance.

Yes, empathy and boundaries shouldn’t be opposites. The problem is when empathy gets used as a reason to avoid boundaries altogether. I’m not really talking about my own parenting so much as a wider cultural shift where “kindness” sometimes gets mistaken for never saying no.

The people who suffer most from so-called gentle parenting are the parents themselves. Especially when children get into teenage years.

Yes I can see how your approach is nice. The snatching is the head scratcher for me. Just say “don’t snatch it’s not nice” and give the toy back. It all seems long winded to me. I guess I don’t have the patience for gentle parenting.

Gentle parenting involves a lot of boundaries. I’d consider myself in the bucket of ‘gentle’ or ‘natural’ parenting. I’m quite strict and quite direct with my children.

I think you’re just confusing this with bad parenting.

If my kid just gives the toy back that IS what happens, my youngest foes mostly. My eldest has ADHD/ASD and will have a strong emotional reaction which needs to be dealt with, he may need a bit of a seat away from the area until he calms down. There is no less long winded way to manage it. It is what it is. For years I tried getting cross and demanding he stops whining to whatever, it escalated and leads to literally hours of screaming and out of control emotions. 10 mins emotional support to regulate is far superior for everyone.

That's not gentle parenting. It's bad parenting. There have always been bad parents

The phenomenon is easily recognisable. I don't think it matters what you call it. Personally I favour the term 'dragging up undisciplined spoilt brats'.

My son is gently parented. Which allows him to attend mainstream school. Participate fully and have a genuinely exemplary school behaviour record. Constant compliments about his politeness and eagerness to help. Partly due to ASD rule following behaviour but also because we support his sensory needs and extreme needs for exercise and movement which helps him regulate in school.

YANBU for being fed up with badly behaved kids, but the sort of parenting you're referring to is permissive parenting, not gentle parenting, so YABU for that. Too many parents wanting to be their kids' friends, not their parents, and can't tolerate their kids being sad/angry/disappointed if they or another adult hold a boundary or say no.

I noticed a real increase, particularly working in healthcare over the years in parents who are just oblivious to the needs or boundaries of anybody else at all. Total main character syndrome. Intolerant to the slightest inconvenience, complaining at the drop of a hat, but god forbid anybody pick up on their awful behaviour!

Sorry to jump in @Barnbrack , but those alternative solutions sounds tedious ineffective lengthy and dreary. awful

What is everyone else meant to do, other than smiling with a rictus grin whilst you coax him into returning teddy discuss the relative benefits and otherwise of using a dustbin and brush, apologising to own DC and put shoes on?

Focus of the day is on your gentle parented child and associated bad behaviour.

I would encourage my DC to drop that friendship I think

Kids have always been unbearable to be around. Nothing to do with a different style of parenting, those have always been berated by older generations.

I actually hate the name 'gentle' parenting, just be a good parent - love and nurture your child, set appropriate boundaries and discipline, which also being aware that while they might be the centre of your universe they're most definitely not the centre of anyone else's.

The trouble is, that to too many parents, ‘gentle parenting’ means never saying no and enforcing no standards of behaviour.

"Her snatching from my child (no big deal it happens) but the parent then spending ages quietly whispering in the child’s ear that they should say sorry. "

Ah, but it's my understanding that the child needs to fully understand why they should apologise because simply saying sorry without true empathy for their "victim" is meaningless. If the child doesn't fully understand the hurt they've caused, or that their behaviour was rude, then they shouldn't have to say sorry. Telling a child to say sorry when they don't understand, or don't "feel it" is teaching them to be insincere. Apparently! I've read this numerous times on Mumsnet.

People have definitely misunderstood some of the key parts of what a gentle parenting approach is.

But there have always been useless, feckless parents. That's not new. Perhaps in the past the feckless parents were too strict rather than too hands-off, but either way it produced damaged young people.

I think you're looking back on a golden era that didn't exist tbh.

Gentle parenting IS the problem. It cannot be implemented correctly because children need, and thrive, on good boundaries. Gentle parenting requires everyone around the child to be flexible with their boundaries whilst the child supposedly learns this is not practical or realistic and the sooner the proponents admit it's just shut parenting whilst trying to be the nice person at all times the better.

She didn't say she'd coax him to return the teddy, she said she'd take it and give it back to the other child. Quick and effective. I can't see how this is ineffective or lengthy?

I also can't see how sweeping up crumbs whilst talking to your child at the same time needs to take any longer than just sweeping crumbs.

And everyone has to occasionally fight to put a child's shoes on. I don't think that's specific to the 'gentle' parenting community either.

‘Gentle parenting’ isn’t a real thing. It’s a buzz phrase to make idle parents feel better about not teaching and enforcing manners and respect. Those idle parents just invent another buzz phrase to excuse away the crappy results of idle parenting: ‘permissive parenting’.

It’s all the same.

Yes, it's been around quite a while now and my uni lecturer friends have seen a huge difference in student entitlement.
I recently worked with a young trainee manager who led a meeting and asked the attendees to remember their indoor voices.

Yes x 1000000%