To think gentle parenting has made some kids unbearable to be around?

[KindButFirmFox]

Boundaries aren’t oppression.
Sometimes “gentle” just looks like “ineffective”.

AIBU to think balance has been lost between empathy and discipline?

You’re brave OP!

Yes, so many running around restaurants. Rolling around with their feet up on train seats. Won’t sit still. Encased in iPads and headphones in order to behave. No firm telling off or consequences.

Yep. Kids rule and they know it

Yep 100%!
Gentle parenting, it’s not working!

Sometimes when I ask myself that question, I wonder whether it's me getting old or the times have changed. It's not just gentle parenting. A lot of things seem to have changed recently. For example, my sister has one daughter and sometimes I am under the impression that she wants to plan every second of her day every day. She just won't let her be bored even one day a week. She always has to be doing something. I honestly don't remember our parents being like that.

I am also finding that teachers these days are just afraid to do or say anything, and I understand them: it's either political correctness, rules or regulations or something else.. God forbid anyone gets offended, traumatised or upset. It's like you can't put your foot right anymore. And it isn't just with children. Sometimes it kind of feels like that at work too. It's as if we are living in a world of snowflakes.

I don't know if we just weren't aware of the issues or potential issues that existed before or the world really has changed.

My DSIL was one of the early adopters of this - her DC's were right little sh*ts

As is always eventually said on this thread when it's posted roughly every week, gentle parenting isn't the problem. It's that a lot of people don't know the difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting. Permissive parenting is the problem.

*I say this as someone who would use neither

Settled in with popcorn waiting for entrance of permissive parenting, stage right.

Bonus points for key (?) details within the two with sloppy evidence base.

Gentle parenting has nothing to do with lacking boundaries.

I think you mean permissive parenting.

You are conflating gentle parenting with permissive parenting. Gentle parenting includes boundaries, expectations and clear consequences. It doesn't include hitting, shouting or unconnected punishment.

Snap!

Define what you understand by the term 'gentle parenting' then it would be easy to comment.

If you mean 'permissive parenting', then yes this is a problem, but you need to reword your thread title and post.

If you mean people mis labelling their permissive parenting as gentle parenting, then yes this too is a problem, but also not the same thing as 'gentle parenting'.

The concept of gentle parenting makes my teeth itch but in real life, the parents I know who are the worst are not "gentle" parents at all. Ineffective... yes. Completely unable to be proactive and predict outcomes... yes. They definitely say things like, "I want little Johnny to feel that he has a voice" or whatever, but they don't actually refer to themselves as doing "gentle parenting".

So I don't know what "real" gentle parents are like because I've never actually met anyone in real life who has said, "we do gentle parenting".

I DO know that ineffective, boundary-less parenting is a big problem. Also parents who believe their children are 100% right, 100% kind, 100% telling the truth, 100% of the time. Those are the really bad ones.

The two families I know where the parents are the worst and the children are hideous shout all the time and frankly, are awful people to be around. I suspect both consider themselves to be very "firm" parents (because... shouting) but they actually are totally ineffective.

Why would you claim something that isn’t gentle parenting is caused by gentle parenting?

I think actual, real gentle parenting (not the permissive thing) doesn't work for all children, and that parents who are trying to gently parent children who don't want to be gently parented and would be much better with some very firm boundaries are doing the wrong thing.

I had five kids. Only one of them would have been possible to gently parent. The rest would have been feral little furniture throwing buggers. And you can't parent one one way and the rest another way, so they were all parented quite firmly.

Couldn't agree more. Aggressive child tears round beating up other kids and causing general havoc. Parent stands hand wringing saying be kind. Hmm.

I gentle parent. My kids don't run around in restaurants, my eldest (ADHD, likely ASD) used to try to. He'd be picked up and brought back to his seat. Repeatedly and gently if needed. If it was disruptive we'd grab the food in a to go box and leave. He's 7 now and if necessary he'll have books, colouring and a screen if needed now to help him stay in a seat. Rarely needs it though, so proud of himself when he manages.

Youngest is just an easy child. Never needed much taking back. Sits on a seat first time. Loves nothing more than an in depth conversation at 4.

I do sometimes deal with meltdowns from eldest in public, that's when he's very overwhelmed and I will contain and leave as soon as safely possible so again not idly sitting by letting him rampage. Most of his rampages involve screaming and lying on the ground so he doesn't hurt anyone but he does need to be removed asap.

Youngest is 4 and she's had about 3 mild tantrums in public that I can remember.

Gentle parenting is listening to their feelings, ensuring their needs are met and not unduly punishing. It's literally ALL about boundaries and age appropriate behaviour and understanding.

or 'shall we make better choices daaaaaaarling'

I’m not really blaming gentle parenting itself, more the way it’s sometimes interpreted. The idea is great in theory but in practice some people seem to swing so far toward empathy that boundaries almost vanish. I’m talking about the balance, not the label.

I think that this topic has gone a bit "no true Scotsman"

So you’re not talking about gentle parenting at all, so why call it that?

Gentle parenting doesn't have to be slack and ineffective, but it's often practised that way. We have friends who have very few boundaries with their child. He is not a joy to be around. We have other friends who are loving but authoritative. Much prefer spending time with those children.

The worse thing I have witnessed about gentle parenting is that it’s long and tedious and everyone has to be involved.
I had a friend that used to come round with her children but I stopped inviting her round as the gentle parenting is so tedious.

Examples included:

Her snatching from my child (no big deal it happens) but the parent then spending ages quietly whispering in the child’s ear that they should say sorry. The apology never materialises and my child is left feeling hard done by. Just tell the child don’t snatch and move on. Kids are
not over interested in restorative justice!

Her child stomping crumbs into the carpet and her spending ages persuading the child to sweep up with dustpan and brush. I got fed and just got the hoover out and intervened.

Spending a painful amount of time trying to get the child to put on shoes and coat when it’s time to go. Meaning they spend an extra 45mins in my home. Just get on with it:

It’s all so painful and annoying and I don’t understand what difference it makes.

Empathy is not the opposite of boundaries.

How do/did you discipline your children?

I don’t think this has anything to do with ‘gentle parenting’.

It’s more just some parents (as ever) being unable to control their kids.