To think gentle parenting has made some kids unbearable to be around?

[KindButFirmFox]

Boundaries aren’t oppression.
Sometimes “gentle” just looks like “ineffective”.

AIBU to think balance has been lost between empathy and discipline?

So not gentle parenting

I’m struggling to see how that’s any different from any ordinary parenting. Unless “a safe environment” and no “threats” are euphemisms for no consequences for bad behaviour.

Exactly this. Gentle parenting is all about boundaries. Very, very firm boundaries. Almost nobody actually does proper gentle parenting because it's so difficult to do well.

If you're actually following the principles of gentle parenting you are never permissive. E.g. in the example given above about kids roaming around restaurants - a "gentle parent" would have explained the expectations and consequences beforehand and if the child won't follow them, you leave. No dinner, no second chance. But also no shouting or shaming, just a firm explanation that if you don't have restaurant manners, you can't be in a restaurant.

It's utterly baffling to me that people will trash a parenting philosophy with absolutely no idea of what it involves.

FWIW - I am a follower of gentle parenting and natural consequences. My DC are teens and I'm constantly told how lovely they are. Possibly not always to me, but they are to everyone else 😂

Gentle parenting has boundaries I didn't say it didn't.
You are putting words in my mouth again, please stop it as it's rude and irritating.

YANBU.

I'm a relatively new parent and half my peers are birthing absolute brats.

I used to receive judgemental comments/stares for being too strict or stern. Now it's endless compliments about how well behaved my children are. Go figure.

100% OP.
Lots of us are having to work with undisciplined, rude, entitled little shits.
It's appalling.

Who actually cares if they are sitting on an iPad so people can enjoy a meal in peace?

As long as said iPad is on silent.

We went for a pub lunch last weekend and the parents gave their, I’m guessing 4 year old, a phone to look at. The parents then huddled together to stare slack-jawed at another phone. Even when their food arrived, they stayed like this. None of them chatted, or engaged with their child at any point. Now that is crap parenting.

See I think children need consequences:
You draw on the wall (age 2 or 3) crayons go away and you are either mildly bored while I clean it off or you help me.
You act up in soft play/ the park/ round a friends house- we leave, maybe one warning.
You hurt someone, all my attention will be on them the wronged party. I will loudly exclaim that that behaviour is unkind, you will be ignored. Kindly I do not give a monkeys why you behaved in a socially unacceptable way, you can't do that.

And teenagers who stay out beyond curfew will be grounded.

I am a witch aren't I ?

“Haven't any time for gentle parents and their flimsy thinking.
Parenting your child properly means that the parent has the final say and not giving power to the child while mummy or daddy wimps about before giving in.”

Just curious how clear and consitent boundaries are flimsy, giving power to children or being a wimp in that case.

edited due to poo spelling

I think some parents have lost the ability to say 'no' to their kids. I think mainly because they know they will get the screaming and shouting tantrums if they do. Repeated 'no' would eventually sink in - kids rule the roost far too much these days.

People need to learn the difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting 🙄

Clear and consistent boundaries aren't unique to 'gentle' parenting though.

Why are you picking on me and not others on here who are saying more outlandish things?
You really are boring me now. Boundary in place I'm ignoring you.

As bad as it sounds I wished I had disciplined my oldest more firmly. And gotten him into more after school activities. Looking back he was what people call an 'ipad kid'

Clearly definitions of gentle parenting vary, but a relative of mine had a friend who was very into the whole philosophy - or a version of it.

She wanted to bring her child (aged about 3) to the livery yard to look at the ponies.
Relative said, sure, but she'll need to be careful.
Kid got out of car, ran about the yard, ignored mother's requests to hold her hand, get back in the car, etc.
When the kid attempted to run under a horse my relative decided enough was enough, caught her before she got herself killed, and handed her back to her mother.
The mother then spent about half an hour persuading the kid to get into her car seat.

The teachers I know constantly bewail the increasingly poor behaviour of children coming into school, and their lack of resilience, self-reliance and basic manners. Some parents are doing a fantastic job, but an awful lot aren't.

Not a fan of the term gentle parenting.

There's got to be a better description of parenting that doesnt involved shouting but does have firm boundries, consequnces and empathy

In the secondary school I teach at ; kids often say ‘I’m going to crash out’ if too many demands are put on them.
These demands are things like ‘sit down in a chair and get your pen out please’ (not write 1000 words about Shakespeare’s sonnets).
Can’t help but think we are not creating resilient humans….

Yes I’m aware of that, I replied to that poster as they claimed that gentle parenting is bad for children.

It's necessary to shout sometimes, for example if a dangerous situation arises.
Most of us don't shout for the sake of it.

This is a controversial take but I think that we need to stop demonising using a firm voice and spanking at times. Of course it won't work for every child but it really is case by case

Unfortunately I think many parents who think they are gentle parenting are actually permissive parenting. This generally means there kids are horrible with no boundaries and expect everyone to give in to them because mum and dad do.

What would be a good reason to hit a child?

Why does it even have to have a stupid name though?
It's just decent parenting.

@KindButFirmFox

I’ll get flamed - but humans/children are ‘animals’ and if you think of a horse, you need to gain control, gain their trust, break them in - otherwise they go feral. You can do that more ‘aggressively’ which was maybe more the case in the past, or you can do it gently - so long as the child ultimately knows that the parent has control.
Gently done permissively is wrong if ultimately the child is always taking control.
I think a lot of parents won’t take the ego hit when their parenting ‘style’ is not working - and would prefer to blame their child. Hence the ADHD/ASD explosion.
We don’t diagnose horses with ADHD…

Firm voice, yes, physical abuse (which is what spanking is), absolutely not.