IVF dilemma. Thinking of going through IVF forThe purpose of gender selection.

[VS1987]

We have 2 boys (5 and 7) with growth issues, candidates for growth hormone therapy. It’s been the source of constant stress and anxiety
them being under 5 percentile constantly. Otherwise completely healthy and happy children.
Had 2 miscarriages (also boys) before them, but all the 4 pregnancies happened on the 1st try.
However, I always wanted a bigger family and I still have a void of being a girl mom and have a daughter.
I’m sure we could get pregnant again, but I can’t fathom to go again through this growth problems and stress around it, having a boy. In my head hight with girls it’s not as much of an issue, I am petite myself and my husband is average height. He only agrees to have another child through IVF juts To make sure it’s a girl this time. I agree the whole point of having another child is having a daughter.
I guess I’m trying to find justification for it, but having fears of IVF and moral dilemma. After hearing the both sides: One is that it’s unethical to select the gender and IVF is against nature bla bla bla. And even that IVF children somehow more at risk and not as good as “natural” which is ridiculous but makes me anxious. And on the other side are the parents who can’t conceive and any child would be a blessing for them - I feel bad asking on their forums With all that does anyone has any thought if there are other aspects of it? How bad is IVF for the health of both a mother and a child? I’ve been ruminating around it for weeks before writing here.
Please no insults. But every opinion or argument is valid. Thanks

If they can pay for it out of their own pocket, it's their business.
But not if they're expecting the NHS to foot the bill.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Female embryos implanted.

yes but the OP has made it very clear that she doesn’t believe that short boys deserve to live hence why she wants selective IVF so that none are born to her.

So if she’s not prepared to produce them for herself she’s not going to give them away to anyone else is she?

I hope any IVF on that scale is unsuccessful.

Anyone who has that kind of vile attitude to the extent that she feels that boys are simply disposable in case they’re not tall enough doesn’t deserve to have another child.

I am confused when you say growth problems. And then say they are healthy but just short?

If so then they don’t have growth problems. They are short. That’s normal! Someone has to be the 5% shortest.

And I do get it. My son is 3rd percentile at 3yo. I am five’3 and dad is 6’2. DP was the shortest in his class and then the summer between yr 6 and sixth form he had a mega growth spurt and came back one of the tallest in class. So you don’t know. Boys are strange. Looking at DP and I have short legs and long torso. DP has long legs now and long torso. So who knows which way it will swing but being short is not growth issues!

The NHS doesn't fund IVF for couples who already have children.

See my post above. There have been hundreds of studies done to see if there is a link between IVF and cancer and so far no link has been found. There is a thought that extensive IVF treatment can slightly increase rates of ovarian cancer but increased rates already exist for women who have infertility. Thus the age old issue of correlation and causation comes into play.

I spent a good year talking to doctors about the risks prior to undergoing IVF and the conclusion is that current studies do not show a risk but IVF is a new medical treatment and there aren’t long term studies yet.

Do you even know what IVF involves? It’s brutal. And very expensive. And not guaranteed.

But your husband will only agree to a third child to select the sex? So there wouldn't be a "him"
No sorry it's wrong

I personally don’t care about their height if not for the school comments and my husbands giving me hard time for not feeding them what he believes makes them grow better - enough calories.
We did all possible tests and seen all possible specialists endocrinologist, GI, Nutritionist geneticists. They all say we have perfectly healthy boys. It’s just their appetite is not there: not even picky eaters just very small amounts of calories consumed. When they go on Periactin ( appetite stimulating medication) they temporarily spike in both height and weight several percentile. everything goes back within 3-6 months as they get off of it. The doctors advise against keeping them in this medication permanently, because of liability I guess and it’s supposedly makes them more lethargic which I haven’t seen. But it’s an antihistamine used for its side effect, so who knows.

Also its the 21st century can we get over the ridiculous idea that 'short men' 'struggle' and don't do as well in life.

Look through history it will show many of the leaders who held the most power where shorter than average males.

Its in fact where the stereotype of 'short man syndrome' came from because so many leaders and dictators are small. It's not just 'bad' men of power though, many religious leaders, pacifist, scientists, and peacemakers have been notably short too.

I know several shorter than me men and they have not 'struggled' socially or professionally. Tall men aren't inherently successful either, its not like if your over 6 food you just get hand life on a silver platter. Outside of some athletes or historic 'sideshows' being tall has never really been a marker too success in anything just like being short hasn't isn't really a barrier.

If you fondly mind doing it abroad if you are in the U.K. then ok . Personally I wouldn’t . After 3 miscarriages trying for my 4 th , I think any baby is a blessing .

What do you mean “everything goes back” once they are off the medication? Surely they aren’t shrinking!

lets actually have some real information here. How old are your children and how tall are they? What are they eating on a daily basis? What are their favourite foods?

If you think your boys have a medical/genetic problem, go see your GP; not an IVF clinic.

If your GP agrees that there might be a medical/genetic problem, they can refer your sons to an endocrinologist who can check growth hormones and other issues.

Your GP can also arrange blood tests to check that their diet is giving them the nutrients they need.

The way you speak about the differences between your stereotypical view of boys and girls, you should've stopped at zero children, not two.

It's the hormones you're pumped with - throws everything out of balance.
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I am a boy mum. Have 3 of them aged 6, 9 and 12 years old.

I would never do gender selection unless there was a medical reason to do so. What do you think a girl would bring into your life that you don't already have? Why don't you think the growth issues would affect a girl? Before my first child I desperately wanted a girl but once I found out I was having a boy I realised I wasn't missing out on anything at all! My boys have their own characters and add so much to my life. I am extremely lucky to have them.

When I pictured a girl I imagined clothes shopping, doing their hair and bonding over nails. I still do clothes shopping, help my boys style their hair and instead of nails we are obsessed with Harry Potter. I get to do all my favourite things with them!

Have a 3rd child if you want a 3rd child regardless of gender. I could never imagine putting myself through medical procedures and the risks associated with them just to get a certain gender. To me it's not worth it.

I really try to be empathetic with posters on here - especially as it can end up feeling like a bit of a pile on when you're posting about your feelings and vulnerabilities that you don't necessarily feel able to discuss in real life.

But this one is difficult. It isn't clear from your posts if your sons are just short (one in 20 people are on or below the 5th centile!), or if there is any actual hormonal issue. If it's the former... I get that life can be harder for short men, and a lot of the people who tell you not to worry about it will have 'strapping' sons, or dating profiles set to men taller than six foot etc. But they are your kids! And you're implying that you don't want another kid like them because it is horribly stressful them being on the small side.

The stuff about IVF kids being 'less than' is horrible. Really awful.

The stuff about wanting to be a 'girl mom' - I think loads of people have gender preferences for their kids. And there are all sorts of reasons for that. I think it's something that people get jumped on for talking about, but people have feelings. But only being prepared to have another child if it's a particular gender is messed up. No judgement from me for having a preference, but actually wanting to act on it I really can't understand.

I've had IVF. It's a gruelling process - physically, mentally and emotionally. I don't think it makes my kids 'less than' in any way, but it's not something I would have chosen for myself and my partner if we'd had any choice in the matter. The only thing I can agree with in your post is that you really need to stay away from IVF/fertility forums with your particular dilemma, because it will be enraging and/or deeply upsetting to many of the people that use them.

I wish you peace with however you move forward.

It’s not all about dressing up of course. However you are still projecting a fantasy future relationship between you and a yet to be born daughter that may not happen. What if you have a girl and you do not have a ‘ precious’ relationship?
It’s a lot to live up to and you sound like you will be devastated if it does not fit your dreams. My mother and were very different personalities and were never very close.I get on much better with my dad and my brother was least the one super close to mum. It was definitely not ‘precious’ .
Be careful - you are potentially creating an actual human being to fulfill wishful thinking.

Sorry, you want a girl because you want to be a girl 'mom' and dont want another short boy?

i dont think you or your DH sound responsible or mature enough to have another child tbh.

Not necessarily. My friend had it as her husband has CF

Prince would like a word.

Given what you are putting your boys through, you and your husband should not be parents, full stop.

My DH is short. He was very short growing up. Thank god he had loving parents.

Imagine you have a girl and she is less than perfect. What are you going to do to her? Plastic surgery at 5? Weight loss jabs at 12 when she hits puberty and puts on some fat on her hips?

I know (via social media not in person) people who had IVF sex selection in the US. Met them via boy/girl swaying group. I did a natural sway and did get the desired gender but 18yrs on, I think my pre conceived ideas of being a parent to that gender never really mattered. Your relationship with DC is not always gender driven. I have a different relationship with all 3 of my DC and am grateful to have had the opportunity to raise both genders but if I could go back 20yrs I’d have been far less obsessive about it.

So many people on here missing the point. OP wants gender selection because of health. I don’t see a problem with it and those saying small men don’t have issues are NOT small men.

Go to Spain OP. Excellent IVF services, reasonable prices and you can select the gender.

How awful... Just on very measure of morality. Awful.

Healthy children of any size or gender are a blessing. If you don't know that, and can't see that, you shouldn't have any more