To think women have double standards

[Scottishlass10]

DH & I were travelling by train and there was a group of women sitting across from us. If men discussed women the way they talked about men the men would be accused of misogyny. Later on DH said and I agree, that some women think it’s unacceptable to be objectified and spoken about in a sexual way but it’s ok for men to be treated like that and there certainly is double standards.

Even if you're right, ime that doesn't translate to women being more likely to talk insultingly about men.
If women don't find a man attractive, more often than not, we won't talk about his appearance at all. He'll just be another person, largely invisible if we are not engaging with him in some capacity or feeling threatened by him.
Men on the other hand seem hyper alert to noticing women and if a woman's appearance doesn't meet their approval, very keen to joke about her or even insult her to her face. Have you never read the threads where women don't want to go running because men have shouted insults about their weight? Or noticed how the go to insult from men is often looks related 'you fat bitch' 'you ugly slag'?

Now imagine it was a group of men saying it. You’re on the train with dh. Does he say something? Do you move. If there was a woman alone on the train would you have left her there?

If you can’t see the difference then you have no right to ask other women to discuss.

The reason I’m ignoring it is because it is irrelevant to my OP and are people using it to peddle their own agenda

Peddle their own agenda? you literally generalised about ALL women having a "double standard" due to one random conversation you overheard on a train.

If anyone is trying to peddle an agenda, its you and your misogynistic husband.

@anytipswelcome You literally described (to a group of women) earlier the way you think ‘most women’ speak about men, based on conversations you’ve overheard. Do you not think that women might have a better awareness of how women speak to one another, especially in private, than you do?

I imagine that women speak to one another differently in private when men aren't around, yes.

I would be extremely shocked and surprised though if women are talking about most men being unattractive, in public, and then saying something different in private.

@5128gap If women don't find a man attractive, more often than not, we won't talk about his appearance at all. He'll just be another person, largely invisible if we are not engaging with him in some capacity or feeling threatened by him.

That's categorically incorrect. I've had numerous women tell me directly that I'm ugly.

Have you never read the threads where women don't want to go running because men have shouted insults about their weight? Or noticed how the go to insult from men is often looks related 'you fat bitch' 'you ugly slag'?

Those men shouldn't be saying that and that's a hurtful thing to do. I know that most other men would disapprove; if I ever called a woman fat or ugly with another man around, I know that I would be told to leave.

Both my husband and I would have thought they were dicks. We wouldn’t have said anything just like I never said anything to these women. There was a few men on their own in the carriage who just rolled their eyes though one of the men did challenge them and asked them to rein it in and was told to fuck off or they’ll report him for harassment!

Well brace yourself twice because most women aren’t saying in public how unattractive most men are (I can only assume you’re picking up on these conversations due to your insecurities and preconceptions) AND in private I think you’re massively overestimating the amount of time we spend discussing men we aren’t in relationships with. And for the most part, if we are in a relationship with someone we probably find them attractive.

Do you have many / any female friends?

It feels like you have a very warped view of women as a sex class that may have been influenced by incel culture and your own anger that women don’t respond to you in the way you’d like them to.

But much of that response is probably down to the fact that we can often read non verbal cues (the mannerisms you point out earlier) that reveal how a man sees women in general. In addition to tone of voice and what they actually say, of course.

You come across as someone who is frustrated that women don’t choose you, without thinking about why they might make the choices they do.

I don’t say this to attack you, I say it because many of your posts are dripping with male entitlement and mansplaining (e.g. where you told us we risk assess incorrectly) which is unattractive and not helping you to understand and respect women in any real sense.

I hope you can overcome that to find happiness and perhaps gain a deeper understanding of women beyond the very biased and unhealthy one you seem to hold currently.

Both my husband and I would have thought they were dicks. We wouldn’t have said anything just like I never said anything to these women

But earlier you insisted that men were "lambasted" for making crude comments about women! Now you say neither you or your husband would in fact say anything at all. Therefore, how is it a double standard if you admit that noone is in fact telling men to STFU? There is no "lambasting" going on.

Really. Please explain what is misogynistic about mentioning the way these women were talking about men and in particular a member of the train staff.

A guy in the carriage did tell them to rein it in and was met with a torrid of abuse culminating in him being told to fuck off or they’ll report him for harassment!

You keep stating facts about women, to women.

That poster said that more often than not, if a woman doesn’t find a man attractive she just doesn’t comment on his appearance.

You’ve said she is categorically incorrect.

That’s false.

You’re wrong.

You know one reason many women won’t directly insult a man even if he approaches her and unnerves her? Because we can’t tell which ones are the ‘good’ ones so in order to protect ourselves we often make up that we’re already with someone / make eye contact with a woman nearby hoping she’ll come and pretend to know us / say we have to go etc.

Numerous women saying that to you is horrific and presuming you weren’t being rude to them, approaching them in an inappropriate or intimidating setting etc it’s completely unacceptable.

It’s not a “more often than not” occurrence though, it’s really not. I say that as someone who has been a woman, surrounded by women, for the best part of four decades.

Oh shut up

@anytipswelcome

You're inferring a lot of stuff that was never said.

I don't believe women spend a lot of time discussing men they aren't in relationships with (probably because I have specifically heard women say that they don't care about men). I am not an incel, and I disagree with their core ideology.

I disagree that women are reading non-verbal cues, or my tone of voice, because I do not speak to anyone outside of the work environment. I do not have male or female friends.

I am not seeking a partner, so I do not wish for women to choose me.

I’m really shocked that numerous women are coming up to you, uninvited and unprompted, to tell you that you’re ugly. If that’s the truth then it’s horrific and have happened upon and unfathomably large number of women who behave in a way that is highly unusual. If that’s happened I can understand how it’s skewed your views but please know that it’s absolutely how most women think or behave.

Some women aren't kind, some men aren't kind. We are all free to gossip and discuss our views, even if those views aren't very nice.

Traditionally men have held power over women, so the potential outcome of negative words is very different. To be built, men are more likely to take it too far.

I do think @shugglesthat sharing sweeping statements about either sex and the dynamics between them when you have absolutely no interaction with people outside of work is quite bizarre.

@anytipswelcome It hasn't happened for many years as I don't go to many places and I don't socialise, but it happened a number of times when I was younger and would go to bars and clubs.

I don't believe it affected my view of women though, as obviously it was only a small number of women who did it.

YABU to say that ‘women have double standards’. I am a woman and I don’t talk about men like that, nor do I expect men to talk about women like that. My standards are the same for both sexes.

You claim to have heard these women complaining about the objectification of women by men, whilst also themselves objectifying men. So perhaps your title could have said ‘the women on the train have double standards’

Certainly:

1. You present a false equivalence.

You compare women’s talk about men’s looks to men objectifying women as if they happen on equal footing. They don’t.

Women live in a world where being objectified can lead to harassment, lost opportunities, and serious safety concerns- like rape and even death in some cases. Men generally don’t face systemic disadvantages or threats to their safety from being “talked about” in this way.
You are flattening a power imbalance into a supposedly symmetrical/ equally "unfair" issue, which erases women’s lived experiences.

1. You and your husband argue women are hypocritical.

By saying “some women think it’s unacceptable to be objectified but it’s ok for men,” you are painting women collectively as inconsistent or unfair — a classic and tired old misogynistic trope suggesting women are irrational or can’t be taken seriously. It shifts attention away from the real issue (objectification and sexism) and makes women the problem.

1. You are using* *the “double standards” argument to minimise sexism.

The phrase “double standards” is often used by people who feel threatened by discussions of sexism. It tries to reframe gender inequality as women being oversensitive or men being victimised — again, ignoring the vastly different historical and social realities between the sexes.

4.* Your entire argument centres men’s feelings instead of women’s experiences*.
You argue around how men feel unfairly treated rather than how women are routinely objectified. It redirects empathy toward the privileged group — a hallmark of misogynistic/defensive rhetoric.

5.* *You assume that women’s conversations are equally “sexualised” or harmful.

There’s no acknowledgement of tone, context, or intent — just a blanket assumption that women are doing the exact same thing. In reality, when women talk about men’s attractiveness, it’s rarely physically threatening or linked to any kind of violent sexual entitlement. Sure, it might piss men off but it doesnt make them worry for their physical safety or instil a fear of actually being raped. You deliberately blur that distinction to create a “both sides” narrative.

1. You ignore who usually gets punished for speaking out.

In real life, men rarely face serious social consequences for objectifying women when talking either in the work place or out in public spaces. You even admit above that neither you nor your husband would call out men for such behaviour.

Meanwhile, women who speak up about sexism often get mocked or dismissed — which is exactly what YOU are doing in this very thread.

Your story gets more and more outrageous.

Im imagining myself sat there. Just me and maybe my daughter. Men. We’re off. I’d be trying to play it down but would be on edge. I’d complain. Women. I’d think what a bunch of (insert word) and move then complain.

No double standards. I’d just be more nervous if it were men. How did your husband feel? That’s kind of your answer. Was he intimidated and scared of them? Because if he was then you may have a point.

@user482904 In real life, men rarely face serious social consequences for objectifying women when talking either in the work place or out in public spaces.

Yeah, I'm sure my boss would not be bothered at all if I made an objectifying comment about a woman.

Agree with others, it’s just different.
Men will hire prostitutes, go to strippers, watch violent porn, sexually abuse, beat, rape, kill. They have the penises, they are the ones who put it in us.
Women will just… talk.

I think the latest update probably required a hammerhead and a vaulting pole.

Sorry but some women are hypocritical. Why is it ok for them to objectify men but nit the other way round.
I’ve never said men feel unfairly treated.
How do you know that men are not affected by being objectified.

I do feel my OP has been blown out of proportion. I can only deduce from the anti men posts that the majority of women on here think it acceptable behaviour for men to be objectified. My sons and friends have been on the receiving end. When you’re playing your sport and sexual comments from female spectators are shouted at you it’s not nice. I’ve witnessed comments such as oh I’ll massage your thighs, rub the deep heat on, you can tackle me anytime,. Is that acceptable?

No he wasn’t intimidated. He just thought they were a stupid women and how they’d probably be the first to complain if the tables were turned.
He was made to feel uncomfortable once in a work setting. He has a number of women direct reports and was on a teams meeting and one woman said, aren’t you lucky having me to brighten your day. Thought I’d make an effort to look good for you, wearing a low cut top. He spoke to her afterwards.