Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think women have double standards

255 replies

Scottishlass10 · 01/11/2025 09:20

DH & I were travelling by train and there was a group of women sitting across from us. If men discussed women the way they talked about men the men would be accused of misogyny. Later on DH said and I agree, that some women think it’s unacceptable to be objectified and spoken about in a sexual way but it’s ok for men to be treated like that and there certainly is double standards.

OP posts:
Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim · 01/11/2025 09:58

weareallcats · 01/11/2025 09:56

Women have been treated as lesser beings by men for pretty much the whole of history, so it isn’t the same thing at all. It’s akin to accusing ethnic minorities of racism against white people - women are oppressed and men are the oppressor.

I don’t agree with this. The murder rates of male perpetrators/ female victims are not akin to white perpetrators/ black victims.

I think women being at a physical disadvantage to men, makes it a very distinct issue.

SalmonOnFinnCrisp · 01/11/2025 10:03

I used go get to fitness camps holidays quite regularly. The ones run by ex military guys (generally RAF)

it's the only time I have experienced this kind of thing.

it seemed to be older "dolly" women (hair nails eyelashed fake tan etc) in their 50s(?) / with grown children. They were generally unhappy "kept" women who had to "look good" and "keep their figure" "for their husbands"

They were absolutely salacious and wpuld make the grossest lewdest comments...
I'd be there thinking " for gods sake....shut up and just do your bear crawls/ press ups/ burpees so we can finish and get half a sodding rice cake and hummus!!!"

Just gross.
I am not sure but my guess was they were frustrated and unhappy at their lack of power / volition in their lives and as they had power over the instructor (as the client) they felt they could do this.

BUT its no where on par with many men who wish violence, death, humiliation, degradation and subjugation of women

daisymoonlight · 01/11/2025 10:05

user482904 · 01/11/2025 09:47

But the difference is- men's thoughts about objectifying women taken to its extreme conclusion results in rape and violent crime. If objectification of either gender was equally as bad then surely the crime stats wouldn't show its men doing all the violent crime. You cannot ignore this.

THIS. Are you seriously suggesting that women objectifying men is "just as bad" as the other way around considering the consequences of both and the fact that it is women who are disproportionately the victims of male sexual crimes?

If so, I am quite shocked at your naivety/ignorance.

Chiseltip · 01/11/2025 10:09

Of course we have double standards. Some of us even use it to our advantage. Social media has started to change that dynamic though. There is a sort of public information campaign highlighting "our tricks" and a new generation of young men are now much more educated.

I don't know what the result will be in terms of societal change, but the shift can already be seen. Men no longer approach women in social settings. Young men are more likely to be single than in a relationship.

I think it's like the Corner Spider discovery. Back in the 1950's, in North America, significant numbers of people were being bitten by Black Window Spiders (or so everyone thought). People believed that the bites were occurring in outhouses, because Widow's liked to spin webs next to water sources that attracted insects.

The public health response was a national drive to install indoor plumbing. However, Reports of spider bites remained consistent, despite the "removal" of the obvious cause. It wasn't until a decade later that they discovered the Corner Spider was responsible for the bites, not the Widow. They were distracted by the reputation of the Widow, and overlooked the little brown spider hiding in the corner.

I think the narrative of "All Men" was pushed by the majority of us to justify our own behaviour. Now that the "outhouses" of relationships have been dismantled, are we only now beginning to see the true cause of much of the issues we blamed men for. Lesbian marriages have the highest rates of divorce. So even where men aren't involved, we end relationships in greater numbers.

So yeah, I think there's a whole lot of double standards that we either won't acknowledge, or we won't accept responsibility for.

MrFoxandtheslippers · 01/11/2025 10:12

daisymoonlight · 01/11/2025 10:05

THIS. Are you seriously suggesting that women objectifying men is "just as bad" as the other way around considering the consequences of both and the fact that it is women who are disproportionately the victims of male sexual crimes?

If so, I am quite shocked at your naivety/ignorance.

Yeah, to me, this is like worrying about a pin hole leaking water in a boat when there is a huge approaching tidal wave right behind you.

AuntyAngela · 01/11/2025 10:19

I'm not entirely sure how to phrase this, but I want to clarify what you meant. You wrote: "If men discussed women the way women discussed men, the men would be accused of misogyny." You said this because you witnessed women objectifying men and talking about them in a sexual way, and you felt that was hypocritical — well a "double standard" - as though it's considered acceptable for men to be discussed like that. Is that right?

However, imagine the reverse scenario: a group of men loudly objectifying women in a public space and talking about them sexually. Most people don’t have to stretch their imagination — it's a situation many have seen. And yes, in that situation, many around them would see their behaviour as misogynistic.

So here’s the point I'm trying to make: what exactly is different about these two situations? In both cases, there's a group of people speaking disrespectfully about another group, while others nearby think their behaviour is wrong and inappropriate.

It's not as though men who speak poorly about women are always confronted or shut down, but women who speak poorly about men are always praised or encouraged. Neither of these is universally true.

Ultimately, it sounds less like you're objecting to loud, disrespectful behaviour in general, and more like you're uncomfortable seeing women behave in ways you associate with men. The core issue isn't a "double standard" — it's that objectification and disrespect are wrong regardless of who does it.

TempestTost · 01/11/2025 10:20

Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim · 01/11/2025 09:37

“Yes. There probably is a double standard. But it’s probably based on the fact that men commit 98% of sex crimes.”

Is what I’d have told my husband.

What do sex crimes have to do with this?

theunbreakablecleopatrajones · 01/11/2025 10:21

Both men and women do this - so I suppose they can both have double standards

theunbreakablecleopatrajones · 01/11/2025 10:22

TempestTost · 01/11/2025 10:20

What do sex crimes have to do with this?

She's making the point that when one overhears men talking like this, it has extra edge

MrFoxandtheslippers · 01/11/2025 10:23

AuntyAngela · 01/11/2025 10:19

I'm not entirely sure how to phrase this, but I want to clarify what you meant. You wrote: "If men discussed women the way women discussed men, the men would be accused of misogyny." You said this because you witnessed women objectifying men and talking about them in a sexual way, and you felt that was hypocritical — well a "double standard" - as though it's considered acceptable for men to be discussed like that. Is that right?

However, imagine the reverse scenario: a group of men loudly objectifying women in a public space and talking about them sexually. Most people don’t have to stretch their imagination — it's a situation many have seen. And yes, in that situation, many around them would see their behaviour as misogynistic.

So here’s the point I'm trying to make: what exactly is different about these two situations? In both cases, there's a group of people speaking disrespectfully about another group, while others nearby think their behaviour is wrong and inappropriate.

It's not as though men who speak poorly about women are always confronted or shut down, but women who speak poorly about men are always praised or encouraged. Neither of these is universally true.

Ultimately, it sounds less like you're objecting to loud, disrespectful behaviour in general, and more like you're uncomfortable seeing women behave in ways you associate with men. The core issue isn't a "double standard" — it's that objectification and disrespect are wrong regardless of who does it.

Yes, this is very well put.

I would also be interested to know how often your DH has personally shut down random men talking in public talking in a disrespectful way about women?

Because if he has never done this then isnt HE the one being rather hypocritical here....

Dragonfly97 · 01/11/2025 10:23

The difference is ( for me) very few men would be in fear for their lives by a group of women on a train, but if you're a lone woman with a group of men being leery, it's a different story. HTH.

Chiseltip · 01/11/2025 10:26

TempestTost · 01/11/2025 10:20

What do sex crimes have to do with this?

And what percentage of me are that 98%?

Sometimeswinning · 01/11/2025 10:27

TempestTost · 01/11/2025 10:20

What do sex crimes have to do with this?

It’s about how oppression and power works. It has a massive amount to do with this.

GehenSieweiter · 01/11/2025 10:27

Ihavepaidalotforthisstory · 01/11/2025 09:22

I think both men and women have double standards.

Agree, though I'd add the word 'can' in beford have.

RhaenysRocks · 01/11/2025 10:28

Coffeeishot · 01/11/2025 09:28

So you were listening in to a private conversation and came up with "double standards" ?

Oh come on, they are on PUBLIC transport..no such thing as an expectation of privacy.

Chiseltip · 01/11/2025 10:28

Ponoka7 · 01/11/2025 09:44

Women then don't have the power to go and commit acts against men. Men who gather and egg each other on have been then shown to commit sexual or violent crimes. Men who listen to Andrew Tate, Men who was extreme porn is always a factor in crimes against women. Women generally have more empathy and many are the household managers, so that pulls us back. We can have a moan without taking that out on the men were encounter and the men in our lives.

By "power" do you mean physical strength?

FrodoBiggins · 01/11/2025 10:28

Scottishlass10 · 01/11/2025 09:49

I see your point, I tried to edit my title to say some women but couldn’t. Of course it’s unreasonable to tar everyone with the same brush,

So a more accurate title for the thread would be "AIBU to think that these four random women I heard on the train have double standards?"

In which case my answer would be yes probably but who cares

Echobelly · 01/11/2025 10:28

I think it's different because men as a group don't generally suffer serious issues as a result of women talking shit about them, and all women are impacted by men talking shit about them against a patriachal backdrop that paints women as slags, shallow, liars, golddiggers - the sort of stuff that men talk about women and then gets weaponised against women as a whole in the press, in courts, by the police.

Snowwhitein1984 · 01/11/2025 10:29

You are an idiot, and I'm being generous. That talk isn't comparable in terms of harm to years of oppression and hatred of women at all levels, from every day to states and institutions. Plus women have no power to act on their objectifying behaviour because has this escaped you but men almost always are stronger than women and also did you notice how they literally do not go around being violent and assaulting women while men do all the time.
Unless you are in white middle class bubble like most of mumsnet I'm sure are every time a woman is outside she's worried about her safety and men's behaviour towards her. No man leaves the house getting worried he may get raped or assaulted by a woman.
How old are you? Can't be older than 4 surely?

Chiseltip · 01/11/2025 10:30

Echobelly · 01/11/2025 10:28

I think it's different because men as a group don't generally suffer serious issues as a result of women talking shit about them, and all women are impacted by men talking shit about them against a patriachal backdrop that paints women as slags, shallow, liars, golddiggers - the sort of stuff that men talk about women and then gets weaponised against women as a whole in the press, in courts, by the police.

Said no divorced father ever 🙄

teddycoat · 01/11/2025 10:31

Snowwhitein1984 · 01/11/2025 10:29

You are an idiot, and I'm being generous. That talk isn't comparable in terms of harm to years of oppression and hatred of women at all levels, from every day to states and institutions. Plus women have no power to act on their objectifying behaviour because has this escaped you but men almost always are stronger than women and also did you notice how they literally do not go around being violent and assaulting women while men do all the time.
Unless you are in white middle class bubble like most of mumsnet I'm sure are every time a woman is outside she's worried about her safety and men's behaviour towards her. No man leaves the house getting worried he may get raped or assaulted by a woman.
How old are you? Can't be older than 4 surely?

Edited

Completely agree.

Cartot · 01/11/2025 10:31

Some people are just arseholes. Male and female.

Snowwhitein1984 · 01/11/2025 10:32

Chiseltip · 01/11/2025 10:30

Said no divorced father ever 🙄

Poor divorced father, at least he hasn't got discrimination ,oppression and prejudice against him, pretty much all the time, compared to a mother, divorced or "happily" married.

Chiseltip · 01/11/2025 10:33

Snowwhitein1984 · 01/11/2025 10:32

Poor divorced father, at least he hasn't got discrimination ,oppression and prejudice against him, pretty much all the time, compared to a mother, divorced or "happily" married.

As I said, we are unwilling to acknowledge or take responsibility for our double standards.

BlueIndigoScarlet · 01/11/2025 10:34

I agree both sexes should speak respectfully about the other. And sexual harassment is never ever ok.

But there is a power imbalance to be considered.

A man listening to a group of women having that kind of discussion might be uncomfortable, but he’s not going to be frightened. He’s not worried they might overpower him. He’s not worried he’ll be raped or killed.

Being worried that people are laughing at your sex is not the same as being worried about predators.

Swipe left for the next trending thread