To think women have double standards

[Scottishlass10]

DH & I were travelling by train and there was a group of women sitting across from us. If men discussed women the way they talked about men the men would be accused of misogyny. Later on DH said and I agree, that some women think it’s unacceptable to be objectified and spoken about in a sexual way but it’s ok for men to be treated like that and there certainly is double standards.

An example of what was said was aimed at the ticket inspector. How sexy his arse was how they’d like to grab it while being fucked.

because women are held to a higher standard. Always.

so? quite often if a man asks a woman to dance and she says no he shouts "only asked you out of pity you lesbian cunt" so? what's your point?

Thank you. That’s exactly what happened.

?
You have directly accused women of having double standards, though.

Ok, and you have never, ever heard men talk like this?

"because women are held to a higher standard. Always.".

That's not true though is it? On this very thread the attitude from most posters is it doesn't matter how women talk because they are not a threat to men.

Whereas as if a poster had posted here about men making similar comments it would be they are misogynistic pigs...

Exactly. And what some males say to females as well. My teen dd and her friends have experience of this. Eg guy had started talking to dd’s friend as a love interest: ‘what would you do if you walked in on me fucking WyseGirl?’ (ie walking on him and my dd). Fantasy obviously being she’d join in. Dd and her friends were 16 at the time and him 17.

Not the sort of thing a girl would say now, is it? When my dd started dating that guy’s cousin some time later, I said to the cousin about him. The cousin said if it made me feel any better (which it did) he wasn’t associating with said guy anymore so their paths wouldn’t be crossing. The guy, who said this crap about my dd is just a regular guy from a regular household.

And if we really want to talk double standards. A boy / man just out for sex = another notch on his bed post and hopefully, eventually, his name will get round as someone girls / women should avoid. However, girls / women don’t put memes out about him and disseminate that information widely for fear of being labelled a slag. They’ll hide it and hope their reputation doesn’t get ruined. Because if a girl / woman does the same, she won’t be admired by other females. She’ll be a target for other males to take advantage of her. And drawing any attention to herself will make more likely her to be labelled the slag and get memes going round about her.

We get it. You wouldn’t shag either men.

But which one would you be scared for your life of?

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim But which one would you be scared for your life of?

That wasn't part of the original point being made. But to answer your question, I would fear any man who appeared to be aggressive, dangerous, or intimidating.

A man who is smaller and weaker than me can still smash a bottle over the back of my head. Or attack me with a knife. Or be part of a group of men who attack me.

I've never understood this weird obsession with height and build. I've never viewed a man differently because of his size. Any man can be dangerous and harm me.

It IS the original question. It’s exactly why men using misogynistic language has implications that women talking about men in the same manner just doesn’t have.

But you, a man in a women’s forum, refuses to see that.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim It IS the original question. It’s exactly why men using misogynistic language has implications that women talking about men in the same manner just doesn’t have.

There's other dimensions to it too, which I have already pointed out.

As I have already said, women don't talk about men in the same manner that men may talk about women. Men talk about the beauty and sexual attractiveness of women, with varying degrees of crass and vulgarity. Whenever I hear women talk about men, it's always about how ugly they are.

Any man could be dangerous and harm you, but because 86% of sex offences are committed by men against women (and 97% of perpetrators are men) can you see why women might be instinctively using height and weight to risk assess men rather than having a ‘weird obsession’ with those attributes?

Who do you think is privy to more conversations within groups of women - you (a man) or the vast majority of people you’re responding to on this thread (women)?

Also you won’t believe me I’m sure but I would absolutely rather overhear a group of men (even very attractive ones) on a train saying I was ugly and they wouldn’t touch me with a barge pole than discussing how they thought I was fit and talking about what they’d like to do to me sexually.

Because one of those scenarios makes me feel absolutely terrified, because of the systemic issue of male sexual violence against women and girls in society.

Can you understand and appreciate that?

@anytipswelcome Also you won’t believe me I’m sure but I would absolutely rather overhear a group of men (even very attractive ones) on a train saying I was ugly and they wouldn’t touch me with a barge pole than discussing how they thought I was fit and talking about what they’d like to do to me sexually.

I do believe that. I literally said that the dynamics are different when men talk about women, than vice versa.

Can you understand and appreciate that?

I do.

Any man could be dangerous and harm you, but because 86% of sex offences are committed by men against women (and 97% of perpetrators are men) can you see why women might be instinctively using height and weight to risk assess men rather than having a ‘weird obsession’ with those attributes?

Height and weight are the wrong criteria to risk assess men. I pay more attention to their mannerisms (how they speak, act, etc.) and their energy (do they seem tense, wound up, aggressive?).

I'm not going to feel intimidated if I meet a friendly giant who speaks to me with a nice calm voice. But I would certainly feel afraid if I met a 5'3'' man wearing a tracksuit who was bouncing around and screaming swear words.

Men don’t talk about how ugly or fat or whatever women are? Women don’t talk about how has one men are? Do you genuinely believe this?

All men are a danger to women.

Goodness @shuggles

Women don’t size up height and weight because it’s a logical, simple checklist. They do it because men’s physical power is a real factor in violence. It’s not about judging individuals, it’s about survival instincts shaped by experience and statistics.

And yes, of course women also pay attention to mannerisms and behaviour when they have time to. That’s really bloody obvious and I’m baffled that you seem to think women need to be educated about the fact mannerisms can also give insight. But when a stranger approaches or you’re alone in a public space, the first thing your brain registers is size and strength because that’s what matters most if something goes wrong.

Your “friendly giant vs short aggressive guy” example misses the point. No one said every tall man is a threat. But when nearly all sexual violence is committed by men, physical dominance naturally registers as potential danger.

Telling women they’re assessing risk “wrong” shows you think women’s fear needs correction, not understanding. You aren’t actually listening, not really.

Women sometimes talk about what men look like and how they’d be in bed. Men more regularly talk about what women look like, what they’d do to them (whether they wanted to or not) how they would exert power over them, how they’d love it, how it’s what women are good for, how that girl in the office wants it, how the woman in accounts wants it, how she was teasing and asking for it, how she’s a slapper and has had lots of men.

Struggling to see the double standard there.

Ugh they sound grim.

Yes I think double standards exist.

The reason I’m ignoring it is because it is irrelevant to my OP and are people using it to peddle their own agenda. My OP was about how these woman were exhibiting
the exact behaviour that is frowned upon if men were to exhibit the and it prompted a discussion between my husband & I.

I believe I was the poster making the original point, and I can assure you the relative difference in size/strength, and fear response that could be provoked, was absolutely the point.

Any man could harm you, given a variety of factors.

But basically all men, given the impetus, could harm me. And that factors into how I view them

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim Men don’t talk about how ugly or fat or whatever women are? Women don’t talk about how has one men are? Do you genuinely believe this?

Men find the vast majority of women attractive. Women find the vast majority of men unattractive (a quick read of threads in the dating section should confirm this).

You're not listening to women talking about women’s issues on a women’s forum.

How do you think you’re one of the good guys?

I think women would be more receptive to you both on here and in real life if you didn’t come across as so unable / unwilling to listen to women rather than telling them how women feel and act.

You literally described (to a group of women) earlier the way you think ‘most women’ speak about men, based on conversations you’ve overheard.

Do you not think that women might have a better awareness of how women speak to one another, especially in private, than you do?