To think women have double standards

[Scottishlass10]

DH & I were travelling by train and there was a group of women sitting across from us. If men discussed women the way they talked about men the men would be accused of misogyny. Later on DH said and I agree, that some women think it’s unacceptable to be objectified and spoken about in a sexual way but it’s ok for men to be treated like that and there certainly is double standards.

Very well put, especially the first paragraph.
👏
I'm 46, so bloody what if I have double standards regarding this?
Enough said.

So, if it's human nature, why are you specifically being critical of women?

Why do you expect far higher standards from women than from men, @Scottishlass10 ?
Do you think it's your social conditioning?

This is a peculiarly male thing, isn’t it? Repulsed is such a strong, visceral reaction.

Most straight women wouldn’t be repulsed if a lesbian told them they were beautiful.

some do
some don’t
I had a friend who if asked ti dance by a man she didn’t fancy , she’d tell him F off.

Guess they don't lean out of their cars and shout "look at the arse on that" or follow men down the street asking them if they fancy a shag or grab their balls in passing. Men can generally go about their daily lives without being wary of women, sadly there is hardly a woman alive who cannot recount as least one incident where she has been harrassed, felt afraid or intimidated and far too many have experienced far worse. That is the difference between talk and lived experience

I agree OP, women can have this double standard. I think though that there are a lot of men who are oblivious to #metoo and have continued on as always. You get the impression from media that men are walking on eggshells around women but it’s not the case for a lot. I walked passed a man saying such horrible sexist things just a few weeks ago in a crowded area with families.

I also think some on this thread are fixated on you accusing these women of this double standard when you’ve not directly stated they have this. Their conversation just started the discussion with you and your husband about this issue.

I agree with the PP that the conversation was hypocrital rather than double standards, if the women were lamenting men objectifying women and then objectifying men in the next breath.

The double standard comes from society, as in do we tolerate women objectifying men more than men objectifying women.

And the answer could be maybe? But for 2 reasons, a) I think I've overheard more groups of men objectifying women than women objectifying men and b) the former I've heard being more intimidating about it, like I've never seen a group of women objectifying boys in a way that would make the boys feel unsafe and made me discreetly contact a train guard because I have also felt so unsafe that I was afraid to directly intervene.

This ⬆️, exactly.

I never said he didn’t like it. He actually wasn’t bothered per sae. He just made a comment that’s all.

Height is relevant in that the poster was pointing out to you that being on the receiving end of a ‘compliment’ from a stranger is very different experience when that stranger is physically very likely to be able to overpower you if they wished to.

You missed that point and instead took them mentioning the height of the man as reinforcing the hypothetical man was attractive. They weren’t, they were reinforcing he was stronger and physically able to overpower you.

Now a few of us have pointed that out, can you see their point? You actually proved it in your response because you didn’t associate strength / size of the stranger with danger, only with attractiveness.

Women don’t have the luxury of doing that when they subconsciously risk assess people they are approached by.

Yes I agree. It drives me mad when some people act as the ambassador of their sex, these women may have very different life views to OP and are entitled to do so. The fact that so many women dress provocatively for male attention suggests many women like to be objectified. That's their prerogative.

@anytipswelcome
You missed that point and instead took them mentioning the height of the man as reinforcing the hypothetical man was attractive. They weren’t, they were reinforcing he was stronger and physically able to overpower you.

So why is it not relevant then that I would still be disgusted by a compliment on my attractiveness, or appearance, if it came from a tiny 5' gay man?

Height is relevant in that the poster was pointing out to you that being on the receiving end of a ‘compliment’ from a stranger is very different experience when that stranger is physically very likely to be able to overpower you if they wished to.

Yet, women would still be disgusted by compliments of that nature if it came from me, even though I would not be capable of ever being able to overpower a woman because I am of average height and I am physically weak.

People are disgusted by unwanted compliments, regardless of the size or build of the person giving it.

If 'MN' are 'going on' in a certain way, given its a forum comprised mainly of women from all backgrounds, and a LOT of us, can you conceive of the possibility that so many women are not 'deranged', but are voicing valid concerns based on their experience? And that while your experience may be different, it doesn't give you the right to imply that other women are mentally ill for voicing concern about the threat from male pattern behaviour?
There are statistics to indicate the prevalence of harassment, assault and abuse from men towards women. Even the chief of police (a man) described it as a national epidemic.
If you feel safe at all times, I'm happy for you. You don't need to sneer at those women and girls who don't, often for good reason.

I have and have challenged them albeit in a group setting.

I’m sorry that happened to you and of course it would make you more aware. Faced with the scenario you quoted of course I would feel a bit unsafe. Anyone would. Ok women are probably more vulnerable but men do get attacked in similar scenarios. Both my sons are big lads and even they are careful where they walk me park at night

"ok women are probably more vulnerable, but men do get attacked in similar scenarios".
Perhaps read your comment again and think about it and your use of "probably".

Did you start a thread on MN about how awful they were?

So many stories constantly in the media about the way men treat women, and always have around the world. Sudan. Afghanistan. The young soldier who’s killed herself rather than live in misogynistic world. The whole trans debate ignoring the women who do not want to be women, transing to men, pushing instead the rights of male rapists to be housed in women’s prisons.

I notice the op is totally ignoring the number of women pointing out that 98% of sexual crime is by men. (And yes, my personal story of men assaulting me starts way back as a primary age child not knowing what was happening - for me ‘thankfully’ it didn’t progress too far and I didn’t have regular occurrences until I was 12).

But sure, let’s all worry about the group of women on a train talking about a man they know.

“Probably” is an understatement there which you must realise?

And in the event of an attack there are two massive differences (not making less at all of a man being attacked, which is still a traumatic and terrible experience). Firstly, the risk of sexual assault is so much lower that in comparison it’s almost negligible and not going to be front of mind for the victim. Secondly, a male is far more likely to be able to escape from, overpower or hurt a fellow male, in comparison to a woman.

These are facts, not opinions.

Women get attacked by men, men get attacked by men. Can you see the commonality here? I was seriously sexually assauted by a male stranger on my way home from work, he was following me and it was terrifying and a male family member had his face smashed in while out in the city by a group of stranger males who were in the mood for a punch up. Not all men but almost always a man

Friend of mine stopped at the red light a while back and a car driven by a male drew up alongside her in the other lane. He shouted out "oi you, suck my dick". Men do not have to negotiate this sort of foul intimidation as part of their day to day life, women do.

In my experience, women talking sexually about men rarely dehumanise them in the nasty way that men do when talking about women. And they certainly don't commit crimes against them or treat them in the same degrading ways, even if they are talking about them sexually.

You haven't posted what they actually said so for all we know it was something fairly innocuous and not remotely comparable to how men speak about women.

Also there is the element, well men do talk about women that way, and they do a lot worse than that, so women both have to speak up against it and be perfectly pure themselves, when men aren't listening, aren't changing and don't care?

Yeah, no. Sometimes it's a bit giving a taste of their own medicine honestly. That's not double standards, unless you have the most shallow view of the situation that ignores the massive historical and current context. Which men generally do whenever they look at these issues

Exactly. My sons have experienced the same.

You are STILL missing the point- whoosh there it goes over your head!

Your big strapping sons are not careful where they walk at night because they are worried that they might encounter a group of women talking about them in an objectifying way are they? they are worried they might encounter a group of aggressive, violent men who might attack them- the EXACT kind of men who talk disgustingly about WOMEN because men who dehumanise women are the exact type of men who grow up emulating toxic masculinity stereotypes and likely to commit crimes against both men and women.

Do you finally get it now- why its far more dangerous for us to accept this kind of dehumanisation from men than it is from women? 😡