To think women have double standards

[Scottishlass10]

DH & I were travelling by train and there was a group of women sitting across from us. If men discussed women the way they talked about men the men would be accused of misogyny. Later on DH said and I agree, that some women think it’s unacceptable to be objectified and spoken about in a sexual way but it’s ok for men to be treated like that and there certainly is double standards.

Of course he doesn’t. He was talking in a work setting or among a group of mixed sex friends or in a group setting.

I think men are doing okay, on the whole.

If I were you I’d get exercised about the percentage of sex crimes they commit, or the amount of women murdered by them every year.

But these women weren't in a work setting or among a group of mixed sex friends. Presumably if they were,they would have been behaving differently

Men do this all the time. Women don't like it. You and your male partner heard women doing it. He also didn't like it.

I see no double standard here. Women expecting to be treated with respect should not be contingent on every woman in the world behaving perfectly

Oh, is your husband one of those?

So, if he could, he would?

I can assure I never step outside thinking I’m going to be raped or assaulted. What a strange way to live.

As long as you agree with your dh, I’m sure he’s a saint.

Well, doesn't this thread proves your point OP 😁

THIS. Are you seriously suggesting that women objectifying men is "just as bad" as the other way around considering the consequences of both and the fact that it is women who are disproportionately the victims of male sexual crimes?
Yes it is just as bad because what it is telling men hearing it is that it is okay to speak deragotivly about women, even when these men would never cause any actual physical harm.

Ultimately, it comes down to 'practice what you preach'.

understand what your husband meant, but I think the idea that men would be “lambasted” while women get a free pass doesn’t really hold up. Men make sexual comments in public all the time without being confronted — most people just think, “that’s inappropriate,” and move on. The reaction is usually the same in both situations.

So this isn’t really about a double standard — it’s about recognising that objectifying people is disrespectful no matter who does it. And honestly, sometimes when this argument comes up, it sounds less like concern about fairness and more like discomfort with women behaving in ways men traditionally have — especially around topics like sex and objectification.

If the behaviour is the issue, then it should be called out across the board. But framing it as women “getting away with it” risks sounding like what really bothers someone isn’t the disrespect — it’s women having the same social freedom men have historically had (regardless of appropriately that freedom is used).

Agree^^

Also, to add to this; And honestly, sometimes when this argument comes up, it sounds less like concern about fairness and more like discomfort with women behaving in ways men traditionally have, I think it is also less like concern about fairness and more that some men want to have a free pass to objectify women. So they say "see, THEY do it too. Why can't I?"

I think there is a reason why you found overhearing this group of women amusing, when a woman overhearing a group of men talking this way might feel uncomfortable

Many men think of women as objects and treat women as objects. So while I don't think women sexually objectifying men is great behaviour, it is not the same thing with the same consequences.

Out of interest.

Do you also pipe up with the same sentiment when we’re discussing the vulnerability of children? When child safeguarding is being highlighted do you pop up to tell us that while adults hurting children is “dominating the headlines” there are actually, a few children abusing adults who we should be focusing on?

Or is it just the 2 women a week in the uk who are killed by male ex/ partners who you want us to shut up about?

How many men a week are killed by their female partners? How many men are smaller and weaker and slower and have no chance of defending themselves? How many women are capable of killing a man with their bare hands?

How often do you walk alone at night?

I think it’s because men objectify women with words and then escalate to SA/SH quite easily.

Women objectify men with words and leave it there.

So men generally can’t be trusted to leave it at benign objectification and so have to have a harsher set of rules imposed on them.

Hardly a private conversation on a train is it? Imo groups male of female talk and gradually get louder -not necessarily shouting- but can be heard several seats away.
Both men and women talk bollocks about the opposite sometimes and a lot of it is crass and scummy, in private that's one thing but in a public place is different.

When I was younger, I thought nothing of laughing at the size of a man’s penis or joking about them being too short and not manly enough, etc. I can’t change who I was back then but would never be so superficial now. I hate listening to women talking about men that way. Perhaps it’s because I’m a mother of boys now and I would hate women to treat them like this.

That’s only double standards if the women in question are the same women, though?

Most women don't step outside thinking they're going to be raped. Tragically far too many are proved wrong. Men don't step outside thinking they're going to be raped. Fortunately almost all of them are proved right. And when they're wrong, it's not a woman that's done it. Do you see..?

@Scottishlass10 Later on DH said and I agree, that some women think it’s unacceptable to be objectified and spoken about in a sexual way but it’s ok for men to be treated like that and there certainly is double standards.

When I've overheard men talking about women's appearances though, it tends to be about how attractive a certain woman is (which may or may not be worded in a vulgar and sexual way).

Whenever I overhear women talking about men's appearances, it's almost always about how all men are ugly.

For me, I would prefer not to be in the camp of ugly people. People commenting on mumsnet can say they don't like being objectified, but how would you like to constantly be considered ugly instead?

So women failing to set a good example to men are as bad as men who without a good example do bad things? Are you sure?

Exactly this.

Can you see this OP? Would you have found the same comments as amusing if it was men speaking about women OP? Or would you have felt more uncomfortable? Likely the latter, understandably so.

I dunno about women in general but women on MN definitely double standard fans.

I’m actually fine for there to be double standards. The world is different for men and women. Women are raped, sexually assaulted, passed over for jobs, underpaid, insulted, catcalled, objectified, bullied and criticised for their bodies, not taken seriously if they are attractive, and deemed invisible if they are not. And that just in Britain. So on top of that, women being sexualised in conversations is aggressive and egregious reinforcement of all these issues.

women talking about men sexually is not happening within that context. If anything, it is done as a tiny correction or counterbalance to that context. I am fine with it. I do not think the ultimate in feminism is pretending women are not in a different context.

The double standards are the glaring inequity in how women are treated in the world…. Not in how we occasionally chat about men on the train.

Exactly the fact that this is even a thread is evidence of this. Men talking like this wouldn’t even be considered “news” as it’s so commonplace.