To think that “fatphobia” is sometimes just discomfort with the truth about health?

[MeasuredOnyxSwan]

Not always but sometimes. We’ve turned every health comment into oppression. When did personal responsibility become offensive?

That’s true. The danger of course is getting turned off, once that happens it can be a slippery slope.

But it did become toxic. Say kind things to keep people happy even if it infringes on your happiness. That trans debate sums it up perfectly. Do you disagree?

Of course there is. I'd go as far as to say the majority of women and lot of men too are frightened of getting fat, getting fatter or staying fat.

Someone shouting 'you fat cunt' at a person in the street isn't really different to someone shouting a homophobic slur at a gay couple though is it? What would you call that kind of street abuse? It happens, especially to fat women exercising out in public. I think that qualifies as fatphobia; what else can it be?

Someone 'not finding a fat body attractive' is not in itself fatphobic - assuming that you don't go up to fat people unprompted to tell them how disgusting you find them to be. But if you start hurling insults designed to humiliate and upset people because of their size, it's bigotry.

I wouldn’t say that was bigotry so much as harassment. The person isn’t shouting at the fat person because they’re fat, they’re doing it because they’re a total and utter twat. If the runner wasn’t fat they’d think of something else to shout. I’d like to think any person shouting derogatory things at women exercising would be spoken to by the police, regardless of what they were shouting.

I don't know that we can assume the insult 'you fat cunt' is unconnected to the size of the person. I remember a few years ago at 9 months pregnant in the winter, I was bundled up in a long thick coat, scarf and hat so looked barrel shaped. Someone drove past and shouted that very insult at me and it shook me up a lot. When I walk around now (or go for a run) as a size 12 I don't get shouted at by anyone. Street harassment of women exists separately to abuse of fat people - there's catcalling and misogynistic comments (and no chance of the police responding either!) so I recognise that as an issue. But for me personally, I got the abuse when a passing driver assessed me as fat and I don't get any abuse now that people don't identify me as fat. It feels pretty clear cut to me!

What does liking a foundation or fashion item have to do with commenting on somebody’s body?

Not really an issue. We're not hormonal 20 somethings.

Try switching in something about their ethnicity, disability, religion, perceived sexual orientation, their sexual behaviour or gender presentation between the 'fat' and the 'cunt'.

Is it bigotry then?

Discussions can definitely be held about healthy diet (eg mediterranean diet being good for menopause symptoms, dangers of over-consumption of certain kinds of fats) and the importance of exercise without any reference to other people’s bodies.

Everyone is interested in their own health. Additionally, you may also be legitimately interested in the health of a special loved one or two (partner, children, parents, etc) - and this concern may be related to their body weight.

But anyone who is professing to be genuinely concerned about the health of a neighbour/colleague/acquaintance due to their body-size is kidding themselves. It is pure judgement and you should be honest enough to own it. (And maybe ask yourself what is driving it?)

Setting aside the goadiness, we had this discussion with my daughter’s consultant.

He was reviewing her mobility and talking about protecting herself from future issues. One of the things she needs to bear in mind is that particularly with her disability, maintaining a healthy weight is important. That’s a really difficult conversation to have with a 16 year old girl. He made it clear her current weight is perfectly fine and she isn’t in danger of causing problems, it’s just something she needs to be aware of. He was glad we were able to discuss it sensibly as a family, he’s had some struggles having those conversations with other young patients, particularly if they are overweight.

On the other hand, every time I go to the doctors, they tell me I need to lose weight.

Exactly. Every guy I’ve dated who had an issue with fat people for “health reasons” did shisha or smoked cigarettes. Where was their concern for health then? People need to be honest for better or for worse.

No, the point is that it’s complex and goes beyond “personal responsibility” to a landscape that includes multiple layers interacting, all the way from cellular to organ pathophysiology, to the much wider public health environment.

hence my comment about epigenetics too.

yes, it’s great as an individual you’ve managed to get things sorted, but that’s like the 1% of billionaires just not grasping why anyone would “choose” to be poor. It’s just as much of a fallacious argument.

thing is, complexity, by its very nature, is hard to understand. So much easier to blame individuals. And it’s why threads like this exist. Hey ho.

Some of us don't want them as they don't do anything for the underlying reasons. When you stop taking them, the underlying problems will come back.

We need to accept that being fat is a bad state to be in and then if we accept that it’s hard to avoid being fat we need to legislate ( just like with smoking ) to reduce the availability of cheap highly processed junk food. We need to penalise parents who allow / enable their children to become overweight / because once you are overweight it’s a nightmare to lose it and break the bad habits

snd we need to do that without the interference of the poor old food industry who will try to wriggle out of every constraint - nanny state - replace sugar with chemicals shit - and it will be tough and it will hurt and
peolle will have to change

Always exactly the same, 'starting a discussion' and within a couple of posts making their agenda crystal clear. The wording of the OPs is like it's from a template.

What does liking a foundation or fashion item have to do with commenting on somebody’s body?
Ummmm, you know your skin is a body part...the biggest organ as it is!
But anyone who is professing to be genuinely concerned about the health of a neighbour/colleague/acquaintance due to their body-size is kidding themselves. It is pure judgement and you should be honest enough to own it
No,it's not pure judgement for many but a genuine concern for the impact they and all other obese people have on society.

No, the point is that it’s complex and goes beyond “personal responsibility” to a landscape that includes multiple layers interacting, all the way from cellular to organ pathophysiology, to the much wider public health environment
Yeah...okay...then again, reduce calories and many will lose the weight just as the latest weight reduction drugs are showing...

A toxic utopia? I wont write what I'm thinking.

Qualified doctor/medical professional/health coach having an honest discussion with me about my weight and the consequences/solutions- absolutely fine. I have had these conversations including one where I talked about WLM and the consultant said no absolutely not, I need to put the effort in and "take responsiblilty"

My family doing the same- absolutely fine. Totally on board with people who care about me telling me they are worried

Random judgey a*holes in the street coming up to tell me- probably a punch in the but hey, I probably deserve it because I have to accept responsibility and not be protected by a toxic utopia of kindness!

Do people walk up to you in the street and feel its their business to point out something you're already aware of and struggling with? Probably not. But sure- lets do away with our "toxic utopia of kindness"

We medicate people to help them stop smoking, to get them off illegal substances, to help their bones heal when they break, to help them breathe when they are struggling. Shall we just say- no sorry- try harder and take some responsibility for your addicition/ broken bones/ inability to make your lungs function???
I assume you have no sympathy for those people either?

I won’t write what I’m thinking either.

Toxic positivity is absolutely a thing and if you don’t understand why it’s a problem in wider society then it’s not my place to inform you.

Regarding your last paragraph, if someone has smoked all do their lives then gets lung cancer, it’s hardly a shock. Same with alcoholics with liver disease. My sympathy mostly lays with those who find themselves in situations (through no fault of their own) such as those born with congenital disease, those who have cancer and there’s nothing they could have done to prevent it. We all need to help ourselves and take responsibility so yes, I’m less sympathetic to those that make choices where the risk are significantly high.

Too add, what would you say about the idea that parents who have children that are obese should be held accountable and responsible? Or are we not allowed to say that incase it upsets them? If we’re not allowed to say it and tell them they’re doing a great job then that’s toxic positivity

Random judgey aholes in the street coming up to tell me- probably a punch in the but hey, I probably deserve it because I have to accept responsibility and not be protected by a toxic utopia of kindness!*
It's been said over and over on this thread that this behaviour is absolutely not acceptable but it's not what the OP was about.

The point of this thread is society as a whole walking on egg shells when referring to the issue of obesity and its impact on life.

You say that you accept professionals talking to you about weight. That's great, but there regular threads on MN co.pkaining of professionals mentioning their weight and being outraged about it. Passengers daring to look unhappy being squeezed next to a fat person on a flight, or schools raising their concerns about their child's weight.

Someone shouting 'you fat cunt' at a person in the street isn't really different to someone shouting a homophobic slur at a gay couple though is it

It is different because you can do something about your weight. You can't change your sexuality. It doesn't mean it's any less offensive or wounding personally, but in terms of "hate", it is different. I would put it in the same category as calling someone an idiot for smoking (although smoking is worse than eating too much - the latter creeps up on you, smoking is just 100% stupid).

Although paradoxically I don't think anyone gets abused in the street for smoking or vaping, but they do for being fat.

Oh its the faux concern that gets me.

Oh, but I'm worried for your health, you need to be slim, like me!

Alright Susan, but you need to stop chugging a bottle of copio-vino every night because your teeth are stained, you've aged prematurely, look like a handbag and smell like a corpse, I'm concerned for your health too, darling!

Yes, and are we allowed to start pointing out to really thin people that they need to get a few meat puddings down them?