To think that “fatphobia” is sometimes just discomfort with the truth about health?

[MeasuredOnyxSwan]

Not always but sometimes. We’ve turned every health comment into oppression. When did personal responsibility become offensive?

This is what people don’t realise, I think.

I’m 5’4” and at 10st 3lbs, my body fat was 32% which is into the obesity range. I was still a size 12 and looked “normal” but I have a small frame and this was definitely unhealthy for me.

The thought of being paralysed for the neck down scares the sh*t out of me, but this is
(a) An entirely rational fear
(b) Not a judgement on the person suffering from one of the worst injuries possible.

So, likewise, it is entirely reasonable to understand that obesity leads to poor health outcomes and to not want that for yourself, whilst still not looking down on people who are obese, who will have different genetics, endocrine disorders, medication side effects, mental illness, abusive or neglectful childhood that have got them where they are.

Is it socially acceptable to tell someone they're slowly killing themselves by smoking? Like, you would walk up to a total stranger and say "hey. You are going to die a slow and painful death if you don't stop smoking"?

HCPs, yes, but not random people are able to say that and they hopefully only do so when it is judicious, not just because they're off on one and hate smokers as so many people do.

Fwiw, I have never been fat enough to ever have been told to lose weight by anyone and I don't smoke. Sadly, I know this will make my opinion more valuable to some people 🙄.

If you have never seen anyone being targeted for their weight and the damage that does, well good for you. I have seen it and it is honestly one of the most disgusting traits I've ever seen. I HATE truly fatphobic people. Really hate them.

That’s really not what I meant at all. I don’t think anyone’s value or worth is tied to their size, I was talking about how health discussions have become almost impossible without someone assuming judgement or hatred. It’s exactly that black and white thinking I find frustrating.

I’m not talking about you or your daughter. More society in general. Of course you’d be concerned for your kid
I am very concerned for society too because obesity is the biggest cost to the nhs, above anything else. People in their 50s, 60s and 70s with long term health problems all related to obesity. Diabetes, heart problems, joint issues needing knees and hips replacements, cancers (we now know that obesity increases the risks of many cancers). Same with coats to social care. We just can't afford it any longer. So yes, I am worried for our society as a whole, made up of individuals who fail to accept the truth and take responsibility for it.

No one is saying fat = dumb (that I can see). They’re acknowledging that none of this stuff exists in isolation and society has normalised bigger sizes and that when you’re in the middle of something it’s hard to acknowledge the impact.

I used to do it as a smoker - have the I’ll be fine mentality, I’ll sort it tomorrow, it can’t be that bad, I can still do x,y,z.

But if we ignore the elephant in the room what is the impact of that.

If you look at the back of a fag packet and compare that to a packet of biscuits - yes it is much more socially acceptable to tell someone to quit smoking

it’s acceptable to tell people they can’t smoke in your home- yet people give chocolates as a present

the attitude is so different

edit to add - and by making smoking socially unacceptable we have driven death by smoking down hugely

This!

Pretending it comes from a place of concern is just a bullshit excuse to be nasty and judgemental. It’s not people having kind conversations with loved ones, it’s looking down your nose at strangers in public for daring to be overweight.

Yes exactly, that’s such a good comparison. People seem to accept medical advice about smoking or drinking as concern for their health, but if it’s about weight, it’s suddenly seen as moral judgement or “phobia.” I think that double standard makes it much harder to have honest conversations, especially when it’s coming from professionals trying to help, not shame.

I’d add alcohol to that too to be honest

The flip side of that is that it is totally socially acceptable to use medical interventions to stop smoking, without being judged as lacking in will power, like with WLI.

It’s not though. If people truly don’t think fat people know they’re fat then in a roundabout way it is sort of saying they’re a bit dumb.

ofc they know.

The point was to open up a conversation about how health, responsibility and respect get tangled together, not to deliver a lecture. I know it’s a complex issue, that’s why I’m interested in hearing different perspectives.

So you aren’t concerned about health really, just the drain they are on resources.

Is this Reform, moving on preparing to develop a Healthy Lives policy?

I meant friends, family, colleagues. I have witnessed it a few times and the smoker will usually acknowledge it like « yes, I know, I should quit ». No bad feelings, no offense taken.
I can’t imagine the same reaction if it were about someone’s weight.

Randoms in the street shouting abuse - I’m 100% with you, completely unacceptable!

But surely, your response to this is not to discriminate against people because of their size and to dislike them purely based on their body mass? That is what fatphobia, excuse me "fatphobia", is
Absolutely 100% agree. Discriminating fat people and putting them down accomplishes the exact opposite of what it should: encouraging fat people to take responsibility and look at losing the weight.

My issue is with society and individuals refusing to face reality and act oppressed and offended the minute weight is mentioned as a personal and unjustified attack. People who gain co.fort in denial and outrage.

It’s not what? Sorry I’m not being facetious.

If you really did have this noble intention of opening up a conversation, why include something as inflammatory and judgmental as 'since when did personal responsibility become offensive'? Do you think a sweeping, inaccurate and judgmental comment is conducive to a respectful and informed debate?

Haha, no not a policy launch, just a personal observation about how we talk (or can’t talk) about health anymore 😅. I promise there’s no manifesto coming!

Obesity is very much being discussed as a public health concern, all the time. The overwhelming majority of fat people do not want to be like this and have tried to fix it. Some fat people will claim to be on a diet their whole lives which might amuse you OP but battling obesity is a daily struggle and relatively feels like being on a diet.

The reason for obesity is the processed foods that are being produced at an alarming rate designed to create overeating and addiction, the high price of good quality food v low price of high sugar processed foods. Extremely wealthy companies spending a fortune on packaging and advertising to make people eat more and more. Yet I don't know anyone trying to shame the scores of people who have shares or work in these industries, especially the marketing departments. Shame on them, not the end users. Shame on governments for not regulating it all.

Overweight people know they’re overweight, someone dickhead making ‘concerned’ comments or suggestions really brings nothing to the table.

If someone was known by their loved ones to be drinking too much alcohol, showing concern would be the right thing to do. But when it comes to obesity, people don't seem to have the same perception.

Fat phobia isn’t about ‘loved ones’ showing concern. So that’s a red herring.

An example: Charlie is five and overweight. His classmates are making fun of him and excluding him from playing saying that he is too fat to run. The teacher does nothing to remediate this. DISCRIMINATION AND UNACCEPTABLE.

After school, the teacher asks to speak to mum in private. Says that ages noticed that Charlie has three chocolate bars in his lunchboxevery day and will ask others if he can have theirs. He seems to struggle to run and becomes out of breath quickly. She asks if things are ok at home and if she has spoken to her GP. Mum gets offended, says Charlie is fine, just a bit chubby, that it's nothing to do with the teacher, she is being discriminatory and she will put a complaint to the Headteacher.