To think that “fatphobia” is sometimes just discomfort with the truth about health?

[MeasuredOnyxSwan]

Not always but sometimes. We’ve turned every health comment into oppression. When did personal responsibility become offensive?

I said "apparently" as other posters previously have stated its toxic to not point out ppls weight problems. I agree with you.

How is what I weigh anyone else’s business? And yet so many people seem to think they have a right to comment. I look at the online conversation around WLIs and how so people say ‘just eat less, move more fatty’. They genuinely think they have a right to an opinion about the size of other people’s bodies or how they choose to lose weight. Underlying it all really is just an old trope that if you’re fat, it’s because you’re lazy and spend all day shoving cake into your gob. And as a result, you don’t deserve medical help or support. I’ve never seen a vile reaction like that toward smokers or alcoholics - all of which can cause diseases which could be argued as ‘self inflicted’.

I’ve struggled with my weight all my life and have never tried to blame my genes or my meds or anything else. I do however have a genetic propensity to gain weight really easily. I have to eat startlingly low amounts (in the range of 1100 cals a day) in order to lose weight but long term that’s hard to sustain so inevitably over the years my weight has crept up. Being on WLIs has been life changing in every way. I can eat 1100 cals, lose weight and not be constantly hungry and thinking about food.

But ultimately, what I do or don’t do with my body is no one else’s business. And yet so many people seem to think it is.

It’s my business because I end up forking out for health care for people who didn’t take care of themselves

if we didn’t have the soaring rates of diabetes ( and heart disease, many cancers , hip and knee replacements ) the health service would be in a lot better state - imagine it getting a 10 to 20% uplift on funding?

it’s my business because ill health costs this county and reduces tax incomes - that are needed to pay for fat related problems

so yes it is my business - it is societies business to have a healthy population

smokers resisted the smoking bans, giving up was too hard yet as a result of taxation, grim messaging , and legislation, smoking rates have dropped and lung cancer

we can’t afford to have an overweight nation

Sorry to hear we had similar parents
Mine put padlocks on the cupboards,they counted choc ices in the freezer,they left drinks in the fridge that my step dad had weed in and told us after we drank it as we weren't allowed.
I had no autonomy over what I ate because it was all locked away ..it was eat the microwave meal she made at lunchtime after school ,or starve , because the cupboards were locked ,the food in the fridge was counted .
So I would steal food out of other childrens lunch boxes at school..
Some parents..mine ..should never of had children..
I can remember eating a bowel of cereal around age 5 and panicking she would see the empty bowel in the sink ..so I hid it under my bed ,with my hidden wet sheets ..this was when she was leaving me home alone locked in the house ..
I could go on...
Point being..I think everyone who ends up overweight has some baggage,and being accepted as we are and treated with kindness goes a long way to healing it

Are you saying that people should only receive medical help and intervention if they ‘haven’t brought it on themselves?’ Does that stretch to people doing daft stuff and breaking bones, people going too fast in their cars and causing accidents too or the kid who damages their lungs vaping? Or is just fat people you’re not happy about?

Most of us at some point will have sought medical treatment for something that can quite likely be traced to an action on our part. I just recently had to get my eye sorted out after I went against all common sense and ended up scratching my cornea with a knife. 100% my idiot fault.

The whole idea falls apart once you realise how many health conditions have some link to personal choices. I want to live in a just and compassionate society which encourages people to make good choices but which certainly doesn’t punish them if they don’t. And yes I’m happy for my taxes to fund that sort of system.

We 'fork out' a lot more for the healthcare of the very old. Indeed, one of the main reasons for helathcare costing a lot more than when the NHS was set up, is that life expectancy has greatly increased. And if more people had healthier habits, more would live to be very old.

I am NOT grudging my taxes going on elderly people's heathcare- I strongly support it- and indeed will be one of their number sooner than I like to think. Just pointing out that it isn't a simple question of the Good costing the taxpayer more than the Naughty.

And, for that matter, do you feel the same way about everyone with risky health habits- smoking, not sleeping enough, missing recommended health checks, not being up-to-date with their vaccinations, taking part in dangerous sports- or are NHS costs just another stick with which to beat fat people?

It’s my business because I end up forking out for health care for people who didn’t take care of themselves.

@childofthe607080s I hope that you don’t develop a chronic condition or have an accident that obliges other taxpayers to fork out for your treatment for decades. Wouldn’t it be a waste of their money? 😕

@unreasonablyso Personally, I feel that it’s reasonable for people close to an addict (whether the addiction is alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, tobacco, etc. ) to raise the subject IF the addiction also affects them - either currently or it will in the future.

For example, if there’s an expectation that the person will assist with care, provide financial support when the addiction starts affecting a person’s health or financial situation. In that scenario, they are trying to protect themselves and their loved ones iyswim.

Ah, I see! I must have missed that part of the thread, my apologies.

Personally, I feel that it’s reasonable for people close to an addict (whether the addiction is alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, tobacco, etc. ) to raise the subject IF the addiction also affects them - either currently or it will in the future. @BruFord

I can agree with that. But in general, I think people should avoid saying anything unless it directly impacts them. After all, it’s quite likely the person already knows.

@unreasonablyso Yes, it’s more being open about what you can offer in terms of support. It’s setting your boundaries as ppl often say on MN.

I've been a healthy weight for 48 years. Then peri menopause, menopause and fibromyalgia made me gradually creep up two dress sizes ( I've always been a 12/14 , now I'm an 18 ). I don't drink, smoke, vape , do drugs. I try to swim 3 X a week now it's winter. I try to walk it cycle as much as possible in the better weather. I'm overweight. I've eaten healthier, cut portion sizes not had puddings etc etc but NOTHING HAS CHANGED. And, yes I feel shit about it

Wonder if the people who 'fat shame ' would be equally happy to "smoke or vape shame". Also , why aren't smokers shamed ?

Smokers are shamed, they absolutely were during the period of time when there was a real focus on anti smoking andd the new smoking rules came in such as not in shops, restaurants, public transport etc

Same with drinkers, drug addicts

I made this point earlier in the thread that overweight people are not treated like that.

I haven't seen any threads in here or any SM where smokers and vapers were shamed. And, if there are , there doesn't seem to be as many as FS. Afaik, no one in the street has been smoked or vape shamed. But, happy to be proved wrong. Also would be interested to know the statistics for how much smokers / vapers MH is affected, eg depression versus overweight people's MH

something you continually have to take is not a solution, it's a sticking plaster and doesn't address the underlying problems.

I tell people all the time to quit inhaling crap on purpose. Not random strangers in the same way scummy people feel is acceptable with fat people. But sometimes with those I've just met. It's not shame and their disgusting habits affect all those around them physically. There should be much more public outcry about this.
Apparently kids who start vaping are now going on to fags. Just ridiculous.

Well yes. You could say the same about many prescription medications. My brother takes medication for his epilepsy which he will have to take for life. People take beta blockers/statins/antihistamines and all kinds of meds for life.

But being fat or dumb isn’t mutually exclusive.

so many ARE fat and woefully uneducated on what that means to their health

many of the social media body positive mob are dangerous and deluded

Like insulin resistance, thyroid and metabolism issues?

many DONT need to stay on the medication and indeed continue to lose some weight after reaching goal, because of the lifestyle changes they make.

I think you are largely right here, except -

There is some really weird stuff I have seen around the fat positivity movement, including here on MN. People who seemed to be believe that medical claims about being over-weight were fake news, some kind of medical scam.

And treated anyone saying things about losing weight - and I don't mean personally directed rudeness but comments that were generalised and medically accurate - such as "you are just trying to erase fat people."

It comes directly from some of the influences I think who claim that being even very obese is not actually a health issue, and saying that it is is a kind of "hate" and prejidice.

Do all these people really believe that? I don't know, but I have come in my old age to think that there are a lot of people who are quite gullible, and a lot of people who will pull the wool over their own eyes.

So I don't think it's as simple as people know if they need to lose weight. Some don't.

I’ve been fat and thin, and people treat you drastically differently when you’re fat. There’s no one comforting you. Except maybe businesses that want to make money out of you. But many, many people treat you like shit.

Well, people take all kinds of medicines continually for life. and it may indeed be a solution to being chronically unwell and/or dying young. I take blood pressure medications regularly; a friend takes insulin for Type 1 diabetes, a 'sticking plaster' which has led to her now being 60 instead of dying at 6; transplant patients take anti-rejection medications which have various negative side effects but are better thsn dying of kidney or heart failure. Why are weight control medications fundamentally different?

Obviously am talking about the meds this thread is about...... WLI

It’s my business because I end up forking out for health care for people who didn’t take care of themselves

And for those who drive badly, break their legs ski-ing or drink too much alcohol.

However, it's certainly true that if people took more responsibility for their diet and exercise levels, the NHS wouldn't have to treat so many for obesity-related illnesses. However, would we just end up with more people living to their 90s and needing care for dementia, Parkinsons etc? Maybe we're always doomed to have an unhealthy population - at some point in their lives.

Not in the same way. As I also said upthread, I don't think people wind their windows down and shout abuse at smokers as they drive past, like they do if they pass a fat woman walking (or running!) along.

State-top-down rules to deal with smoking are not the same as shaming by peers.

We now have the sugar tax and the new restrictions on advertising less healthy foods, but they are not "shaming". And are probably also useless.