I’ve been accused of bullying - ridiculous

[Jinjer]

At work on Friday we were holding a meeting and I asked how people would feel about a specific proposal …

Most people either said yay or nay so to speak but one woman went absolutely nuclear, ranting on and on about how it was a terrible proposal and she’d never support it, drawling parallels to other things in place that she disagrees with, raging on about how terrible it all is and how sick of it all she is etc! Everyone was a bit gobsmacked so to lighten the mood I said “so, can I put you down as a maybe?”

Everyone laughed. She didn’t. She got up and stormed out. I now hear she has complained to the manager about me humiliating her and wants it treated as bullying??!

WIBU?! Her rant was very OTT, all she had to say was “no”

What exactly was there to diffuse though? It just seems someone expressed themselves in a more impassioned way than their colleagues. It’s a work environment so all OP needed to do was listen to her and acknowledge and thank he for her feedback. That would have been the obvious and professional thing to do.

OP responding as she did, would seem to that colleague as though she hasn’t been listened to as all she got back was a ‘Can I put you down as a maybe?’. OP may have congratulated herself for what she obviously thought was a funny reply but it was ill judged and misplaced. It also doesn’t matter whether ‘everyone else laughed’ as that’s hardly a good judge of whether something was appropriate or not.

I personally wouldn’t say you bullied her but I can imagine her feeling a little humiliated/that her feelings were dismissed by you so perhaps she’s jumped to feeling bullied from that perspective.

This.
If she’s such a nightmare everyone will back you up won’t they?

I can't believe people on here think it's bullying. Bullying means it's ongoing, not a one off comment meant to diffuse a situation.
She sounds like a complete twat and I'm so sick of the way no-one can say anything without someone being offended
She was embarrassed because people laughed, she should be embarrassed because of the way she behaved

OP just needed to say “OK, thank you, I’ll make a note of everyone’s views and pass it on to head office. Anyone else?”
It’s not difficult, especially as OP says she was just the messenger. She wasn’t in the position of needing to defend or justify the proposal. She had just been asked to canvas opinion.

Mumsnetters slaver and dribble with glee at the thought of calling OPs a bully, and fall all over one another to be more regressive, oops I mean progressive than each other, for any reason at all or none.

Obviously, you were berated by an ill tempered, unprofessional nutter, but instead of bursting into tears or letting her shit all over you as she had planned, you made a bit of a joke, and when her bullying didn't work she marched off in high dudgeon.

And mumsnetters really really hate it when anybody reacts in a way that is less than that of a sainted angel. You were subject to a deeply unprofessional rant, and reacted like a normal, decent human being to that.

It's abundantly clear you didn't bully her. In fact, well done for reacting lightheartedly, that's precisely the right tone to take with her horrible behaviour.

And people who only ever see themselves as victims are unable to differentiate between what is a valid issue and what genuinely is ridiculous.

I have managed people for a long time and have heard bullying accusations (some formal, some limited to the tea-room) because.

• they didn’t get bereavement leave for a pet (formal)
• they were expected to report to a woman (formal, against me!)
• they were given a prioritized list of tasks that was their job (formal, also against me)
• they didn’t like the Christmas party venue two years running (in a meeting)
• They were instructed to wear the provided PPE as per procedure, even though not using safety equipment is a disciplinary matter.
• Someone disagreed with them in a meeting, after they had said their piece.
• they were expected to take down the page 3 pictures from the canteen. (Ok that was the early 90’s)
• They were asked to state their preference about the Christmas Party in front of other people.

Have a think about that or is this also bullying you?

Unfortunately there are some people who will find any excuse to be upset or offended by anything people say.

I think the ultimate for me was the woman (junior to me, but not my staff member) who complained bitterly to our big boss and put in a formal complaint about me. My offence? I had complimented her on how fabulous she looked one day - according to her this was me implying she usually looked bad (she didn't, always looked good just that one day was even better). Wasn't just me she would do this to, she would seem to examine anything anyone said to her to see if there was any way it could be interpreted badly. New version of some software we used came out, her boss asked if she wanted to go on a course for the very extensive upgrades and changes - apparently this was her boss implying she was no good at the original version. Asked if she wanted to learn the basics of the admin job for when the admin person was off, as we all (including the team managers) took turns in covering that role - implying she was "only good for admin work".

She was another, like in the OP, who would object vociferously to potential changes and rant about them in meetings, but we never at these times would get a solid reasoned argument as to why she objected so much to them.

I'd sort of got used to that kind of objections when I was in the Civil Service, as we were introducing PCs etc for the first time (late 80's/early 90's) and some of the older staff had never used IT so were feeling scared & uncertain. My response then was usually to say that we would take it off line, and if they put it down in writing & sent a copy to the implementation team we can have a meeting with them & any other objectors to try to resolve their issues. Book the meeting then and there so they didn't feel "fobbed off" - couldn't do it by email of course as they didn't have it & had never used it!

But we would soon work out at each place that there were some people who would never accept any change to the way things had been for many years and would object to things as a matter of principle.

It’s not bullying but it would of been better if you hadn’t said it

I’d apologise but make it very clear her rant was unnecessary and inappropriate

💯

Language like the woman went nuclear, was ranting, raging on and on. People were gobsmacked. Right.

It’s clean some people have never worked with anyone like this-negative, moody, ranting person that drags the mood down alll the time. It’s bloody tiring to work with and I would imagine a fucking NIGHTMARE to manage.

OP I think your joke was funny 😂 bet everyone else did too.

Looks like I’m in the minority but I think the OPs response was perfect- I don’t see it as a put down or belittling! IMO it’s an appropriate use of humour to diffuse a situation and move the conversation on after the other person has completely overreacted.

Some sense here! Actually a huge amount. This thread has been eye opening, so the woman's shouting and unprofessional behaviour is a 'poor her, how upset she must be, you MUST apologise to her!!!' And agree the glee at some posters seemingly hopeful that op will have a grievance raised? Bonkers!

If that were the case it would have worked, wouldn't it? And no one would be upset and there would have been no complaint. There's rarely a 'perfect' response, so we should aim for the most professional and least risky. A joke at another person's expense is never going to be that.
The appropriate response would have been "Thanks Jane, I can see you feel strongly this isn't a good idea. I'll make sure your views are considered/fed back. Shall we move on..."

But it's only probably not worked as the woman sounds like those mentioned by pp, permanent victims seeking to be offended.

Not according to the ACAS website:
"Although there is no legal definition of bullying, it can be described as unwanted behaviour from a person or group that is either:

• offensive, intimidating, malicious or insulting
• an abuse or misuse of power that undermines, humiliates, or causes physical or emotional harm to someone

Bullying might:

• be a regular pattern of behaviour or a one-off incident
• happen face-to-face, on social media, in emails or calls
• happen at work or in other work-related situations

not always be obvious or noticed by others"

I agree. Some of the responses on this thread are giving "bring your whole self to work vibes". I hope we get back to just bring your professional self to work, with a side order of don't expect your colleagues to pander to your emotional outbursts, soon. I'm glad I work on my own, the modern workplace sounds more like an exhausting kindergarden than a place adults go to to perform tasks in return for money.

You were patronizing and dismissive.

But one incident doesn’t give rise to bullying.

You should have been more professional rather than making fun of her.

Some people take everything as bullying. They need to grow up. I have a colleague who thinks absolutely every single comment or piece of advice is bullying. We work in the NHS so if we see something that could potentially harm a patient such as not washing hands properly or being angry with a vulnerable patient then this is bullying according to her and she immediately goes off to her union. It's incredibly tiresome.
She's currently been off sick for a year with long covid and the atmosphere at worked has lightened considerably.
She doesn't recognise that her own behaviour is appalling of course.

So like the explosive behaviour of the woman in the meeting directed at op?

We don't know if it's bullying- we don't know if it's part of a pattern of on-going behaviour or a one-off.

If it were me, I'd be looking back at previous interactions with the employee and seeing if it could be interpreted other than amusing quips. There's a guy in my team, who can be very sarcastic, and is rather too fond of putting people down as a way of being funny. He thinks everyone is on board with it and accepts it's humour. I'm not sure. I think there can be a cumulative effect, and it's not interspersed with comments on good bits of work. I am keeping an eye in it for now.

If it's a one-off, I'd take her aside, apologise for misplaced humour, and let her talk - it seems like something is getting to her. Some years ago, I completely lost my temper at something my manager said. It was a complete over reaction at what he'd asked, but it's also very unlike me to lose my temper. So it should have been clear it wasn't really about being asked to print something (that didn't need printing so was wasting paper - told you it was an over-reaction.) It was clear to me that I wasn't managing stress about other things that well.

If it's not a one-off, on either side, there does need to be some investigation- either you shouldn't be treating her in ways that could be construed as bullying, and it's important to remember it's not the intent, but how the person feels about it that counts. And if she has a history of vexatious complaints, whether against you or others, that should also be dealt with.

Why are you shocked? Just because the colleague was unprofessional, doesn't give the OP the right to also be unprofessional...

It's the same for any situation in life - just because one person does something wrong, doesn't make it OK for others to then do it.

@Jinjer I think it would actually be a good thing that this is taken up with HR if they are always difficult and unprofessional, as it will give you a chance to apologise as well as HR being aware of how challenging this person is.

OK, that's useful additional context, but how many other colleagues has she accused of bullying? And how often has she been censured for her confrontational behaviour at work?

Indeed, and OP could make a complaint about her behaviour, but so far she hasn't.

I don't think being upset at being laughed at means a person is a 'permanent victim waiting to be offended'. The majority of people would not appreciate being laughed at after expressing their views, would they? And even if the woman does have difficult traits, she still needs to be managed. The ability to judge how to respond appropriately to a variety of personality types is an important interpersonal skill and if you're not confident, you play it safe rather than employ riskier tactics like humour.

Jeez, am glad I’m at the end of my career when I’m reading all the po faced comments on here. OP, it was obviously a joke-I’ve been in meetings where I’ve been against proposals and would think it funny if the instigator said that! It wasn’t so bad!