To feel like an awful mother now

[Fogthefrogfred]

I’m sure I’m going to be told I’m not unreasonable so can I also get some advice on how to talk to DD2 about this.

I have 4DC they are all adults now DD1 is 27, DD2 is 25, DS1 is 24 and DS2 is 22. They are all happy, accomplished young adults and I’ve never really doubted my parenting until now.

This week myself, my DH, DD1 and both boys are on holiday together. DD2 lives abroad, has a boyfriend and a whole life of her own so didn’t join us.

Yesterday after we arrived someone left the front door open, I don’t know why but I instinctively called DD2s name to ask why she hadn’t, she’s not clear so it obviously wasn’t DD2 who left it open! Again this evening someone left their plate on the dining table and I for some reason again called for DD2. DS1 then made a comment like “once the family scapegoat, always the family scapegoat”. I asked what he meant and this turned to all the children and my DH telling me that as teenagers I used to always blame DD2 if something happened or if no one admitted to something. A bad example of this is and I remember this happening pretty well, some of the children were outside and someone threw a rock which ended up cracking my car window. Immediately DS2 told me it was DD2 and she told me it wasn’t her but I remember I punished her anyway. Apparently it was DS1 all along! All the children admitted that they took advantage of my tendency to blame DD2 so would rarely admit to it being them. Apparently DD2 didn’t bother arguing as she knew I wouldn’t listen. DH admits he also thought I used DD2 as a scapegoat but in the absence of evidence of it being someone else he didn’t see the point in interfering as I’d never listen to him anyway. Now admittedly most of these were low level things, similar to this week, like doors being left open or table left uncleared and didn’t result in any real punishment. But all 3 children have admitted to letting DD2 take the blame for bigger things knowing I’d just assume that anyway and DD2 wouldn’t bother to fight.
DD2 and I are still close now, so I assume it’s not left any hard feelings but I feel absolutely awful about it! I have no idea why my instinct was to blame DD2, perhaps a left over of her being the toddler/child who always ran and her generally being more defiant than the others (well I thought she was anyway, now I think I was wrong !)

I feel so awful about this and feel like I owe DD2 an apology but I have no idea how to go about this.
DH says I should just leave it be, she still visits and calls often, clearly has no hard feelings about it and most families probably have one child who ends up getting the blame more than others.

AIBU to feel awful and what should I say to DD?

People can emotionally abuse kids unintentionally... It doesnt have to be -" I'm strapping no 2 child up by their fingernails!"

Being consistently blamed for things you didn't do, being gaslit /invalidated IS emotional abuse... It can feel tortuous to a small child constantly being treated differently to your siblings.

Yes of course we all make mistakes in parenting... But it would be the chronicity here that is damaging.

The good thing is, is that @Fogthefrogfred@Fogthefrogfred
is aware of it now! And hopefully will acknowledge it in a discussion with her daughter - I hope this leads to some healing.

My mum actually acknowledged how deficient my dad's parenting had been... A matter of weeks before she suddenly die.
Til then she said, she just hadn't realised what a profound impact it had on us. There was lots of low level emotional abuse.

I was very grateful cos at least she finally realised!

I'd say the whole family were responsible

Poor girl

It's not just as a child though. Telling a 25 year old off for not clearing a plate is weird anyway.

People are getting annoyed because they absolutely LOVE a good vindictive pile on.

You made mistakes - as we ALL do even this lot commenting.

It is good that you are reflecting and are seeking to make amends where necessary. The fact that people are pathetically jumping down your throat for your jokey comment about her 'throwing them under the bus' is insane.

I'm not in any way minimising scapegoating etc but I do think that unfortunately some of these posters have been on the receiving end of parents who have behaved much worse and wouldn't dream of admitting any responsibility or apologising and therefore they're (maybe understandably) getting a thrill out of sticking the boot in with you and saying things they don't feel able to say to their own abusive parents - maybe because they're estranged or deceased.

By all means sincerely apologise and allow your daughter to express how she really feels about her identity in the family and her childhood but it doesn't sound as though you need to beat yourself up!

And as for those saying it doesn't matter about plates and shoes being left around..... Maybe they don't have 4 children that they are trying to raise into respectful and considerate adults

@Fogthefrogfred Reading this at first, I was also horrified by what you had done, but since your update on how DD2 reacted on the facetime, I think your family dynamic is actually okay.

We all do things that affect our kids in one way or another. I'm talking regular, human things NOT maliciously abusive things.

You recognised that you had been wrong and you are prepared to apologise and work on why. She sounds like she is well-rounded and have taken it in her stride (however, I do think the apology will be welcomed.)

Don't take the negative posters to heart too much. Yes, they've opened your eyes and you were wrong, but you sound like you could grow from this and your daughter sounds okay.

Good luck

Surely she did this because she assumed that there was no point in her defending herself? She accepted her role as the family 'scapegoat' because she knew that if she had spoken up and said that it wasn't her plate, you wouldn't believe her.

You definitely need to apologise to her.

That's fair enough. Sorry if it came across as an accusation. It just crossed my mind and thought might be worth considering as this is all something you weren't aware of until today. And I did figure the bus comment was a joke.

Honestly, op don't go rushing off with the therapy and self-flagellation just yet. You're aware of it and want to make it right. Talk to your daughter first. Follow her lead. She might not want a massive reaction to this. Don't do that to appease MN. There's been some great posts including the one from a therapist that gave good advice about broaching it. Good luck.

This ^

I can remember being in bed and my mother screeching t me to come down where she pointed to some mugs that had been left on the coffee table.

There was no point saying they were not mine (I don't take milk in drinks) that would have just led to more punishment.

Lots of other similar incidents where I had to clear up after my brother.

My brother's behaviour was just accepted and mine wasn't.

It grinds you down, day after day, it makes you believe you have no value as a human. That you are not worth listening to.

OP, the first step, that you have taken, is to recognise that you have made mistakes.
Talk to DD2 about it, and get yourself some therapy to help you come to terms with your actions while your DC were growing up. Ask DD2 if she would like to also get some therapy, and offer to contribute to the costs if she would.
You need to be kind to yourself, too - kids don’t come with a handbook, and the small age gaps between your DC must have made it very difficult for you to exercise proper control of snap judgements while wrangling 3 others.
I hope you are able to get through this and come out the other side in a better place, knowing that you did your best in the end…

I think it's worth looking at the entire dynamic. From what your children said, it sounds like they had an elaborate system of redirecting blame when they were teens, which indicates to me that they were constantly in fear of being caught out for things and told off. You still tell them off as adults. If my mum told me off when I was 25 for leaving a cup on a table I'd have told her to shove it up her arse! You have to be very careful that you don't continue to treat them like children - that gets very very wearing and annoying and they will eventually start avoiding you.

As for DD2, you obviously have some resentment towards her. Do you feel that as a 'nightmare toddler' she disrupted the peace? Did her misbehaviour make you feel like a bad parent?

If you do have the conversation, for the love of God don't start dripping guilty tears, therefore making her feel responsible for your feelings.

I’m approaching my 50s but I grew up as your DD2.
In my 20s I was still desperate for genuine love from my mother and tried my hardest to be close to her despite the criticism and accusations.
But guess what, once I became a bit older and had my own daughter I was absolutely disgusted with the way my mother had treated me and was able to see the truth.
I looked at my own daughter and realised my mother had no empathy and felt no genuine love for me to be able to treat me the way she did vs my siblings.
Now I am just about completely NC with my mother, I intend to be fully NC by next year.
Growing up, my mother’s actions made me question myself, my abilities, my likeability, contributed towards my severe social anxiety and people pleasing tendencies etc etc.
You are severely underestimating how your scapegoating actions have impacted your daughter.
And the funny thing is, my mother would tell everyone (and herself) that we’ve always been close and still are. She is delusional and fooling herself because she can’t handle the guilt.
I have tried to talk to her about it and she becomes angry and calls me a liar.
If she was genuinely remorseful I could work with that - so there’s still hope for you and your relationship.
But I think it’s very telling that you won’t even consider the fact that she lives half the world away from you could possibly be anything to do with the way you treated her.
Ask yourself, is this just a performative apology because you don’t want your family to think badly of you, or do you genuinely see how emotionally abusive you have been towards her.

Ugh yes this too

You honestly never doubted your parenting skills in 28 years? That tells me everything I need to know tbh.

My experience of something similar (as the daughter) is that the effect was to make me really desperate for any crumbs of love/comfort from my mum until I was late 20s, then I slightly hardened my heart and accepted the limitations of our relationship- I am still in touch with her but keep her at arm's length emotionally (this is not entirely successful- I am still completely floored on the odd occasion when she does say something nice- but it's workable. My mother has never apologised for anything). Your DD is probably still just taking this as her role and that's how life is - it may well be that she starts to question things later.

You still have time then. You should apologise and you need to do this properly- not a quick "sorry" in front of other people. Some sort of counselling is also a good idea- not sure I would suggest this to your DD though as that's entirely her choice. You should also talk to your other children- this dysfunctional dynamic can't have been good for anyone.

Also simple strategies such as learning to take a moment before you speak- you see the discarded plate, you instinctively want to call for DD2, but instead you pause and examine that feeling rather than acting on it. Less reactive, more reflective.

OP, I'm not reading this situation similarly to some posters on here, perhaps we are all projecting our own experiences. My girls weren't perfectly parented by me and yes, we have both joked about it, and cried over it, but they know I love them, have been 100% behind them their whole lives and would do anything for them, and I am close with both of them and love that we can be honest about the past, which includes absolutely awful behaviour by me at times. It's ok to be human, it's ok not to parent perfectly, it's ok to respond differently and get in a wrong dynamic with a child if you can, at some point either try to correct it in the moment, or have a realisation later on and let them know you realise it was wrong.

I get the feeling that some people on here have young children and are very angry with their parents, but that isn't your situation- in fact, three out of four of your adult children are spending time voluntarily on holiday with you, and the other one is dipping in with video chats and jokes. I think you are probably doing better than most of us, and if there was differential treatment (which there always is, as children are different and so you get into habitual patterns of behaving) you can think that through now, apologise and rectify.

I do still say to my adult kids, take you plate out. I have failed on that front also.

Be kind to your daughter, but also yourself, there is no need for intensive self-flagellation, but a bit of self-reflection and honest conversations are the way forward here. Also, don't deny it. You did it, so just hold your hands up, listen, and then work forward.

I do agree with @Frequentlyincorrectbut about the fact that we're all imperfect. I often see posts on here from people furious with their parents about their imperfect parenting and also seemingly blind to the fact they're probably making as many mistakes themselves.

Perhaps there is some projecting of experiences going on as you suggest, however it is presumably helpful for the OP to read experiences from those of us who have mothers who have behaved in a similar manner as her.
If you haven’t been in the position of the scapegoat child you can’t possibly know how it feels or affects you as you grow up.
My siblings are actually all extremely close to my mother because they are the favoured ones. They are presumably grateful to me for being the scapegoat as the blame for any of their wrongdoings was shifted my way.
However they have never acknowledged this to myself or my mother, and therefore we are also NC.
None of us knows the actual situation as we aren’t living it, however we can offer up examples of how scapegoating has affected us and it may help.
And no I don’t have young children and I have processed my anger & hurt, hence I am now NC. My own daughter is now grown and doesn’t like her Granny (my mother) because she is just as critical now of her as she was then of me so I suspect she will also go NC.

I was going to say, the reaction she had on the group family call seemed very people pleasing. I’d have reacted the same as her, including the jokes, to save face, and not be confronted with the dynamic in front of the whole family. It’s embarrassing. I would have felt very sad afterwards.

Definitely apologise. It doesn’t have to be over the top and emotional, but a genuine apology in a one on one call with her would be good. My mum would say we are very close. We are, but similar to other posters, I tried so hard all the time and brushing stuff under the carpet, especially in my teens and twenties. It was having kids myself that has changed how I felt.

Don’t be too hard on yourself, we are all going to do things wrong in parenting. I think owning up to it and apologising, then making a real effort not to do it again, will go a long way. My mum has never apologised, and in fact has denied everything

Agree.

I really think your DH should have said something at the time though. You might have been able to address it much sooner.

I mean, no obviously don't do this- but I don't see anything in OPs posts that suggests she would.

@Itsseweasy I agree with you, it's good for the OP to hear a range of interpretations and experiences. Whatever happens, it's better to think about this now than be in denial. Also, if I have understood correctly, the OP did not phone the DD2, her brother did and mentioned this, so the DD2 would have just defaulted to the usual way of behaving. I think having one to one time with the DD2 is the way forward here, which involves listening. I go into defensive mode when my kids accuse me of anything and that's not great, so try not to do that, OP. I struggle. I do feel this is part of being human though, and mums are given a much much harder time than dads for far lesser crimes.

I also have many friends who are tied in knots or still beholden to adult children making accusations against them (you shouted at me when you were younger; you weren't sympathetic to me), not accusations of abuse at all, just of poor parenting, my friends were single parents doing their best and I do this is not a good dynamic to take into the future, as it leads the mums then to be still giving their children money or listening to basically nasty comments about themselves for years and years due to guilt. In one case, I believe it to be emotionally abusive towards the mother. Admit your guilt, have that conversation, and then try to move forward together into an adult-adult relationship.

It is hard though. I wish I had my time again, and I wish I'd parented differently at times.

I doubt there is some deep seated reason as to why it was DD2 and not the others and probably just because she was most likely to be the culprit early on and it stuck. You've realised (albeit far too late) admitted guilt and will apologise. That's enough. Don't get caught up in the Mumsnet narrative that you're some sort of Rose West character because of this.

@Fogthefrogfred I was similarly wondering what the above poster, has put into words.

Since you are clearly trying to be a good mum and have taken on board what was said, recently, I hope you can consider whether anything in the post by @AgDulAmach resonates with you? If so, maybe you can maybe discuss the whole family dynamics when you go for therapy?

You are getting it in the neck here op because no one is ever given any credit for self reflection or admitting you got something wrong on Mumsnet any more. Unfortunately, it has become a much more unforgiving place over the years in which to admit any failings.

And no nuance is allowed either. You are either a loving angel or a malevolent abuser when most of us normal folk were something in between who were doing the best we could with the knowledge, energy levels and resources we had available at the time… .

And fwiw I think you are right to have a proper conversation with her about it and hear from her how it made her feel and apologise if you feel that’s appropriate.

Raising four dc is a lot and they are evidently leading happy, interesting and fulfilled lives, so give yourself some credit for the good things you have achieved as a parent too 👍