AIBU to think it's "paternity leave" not "personal project leave"?

[bobandbrenda]

For our first two DC, DH got the standard 2 weeks paternity leave. He was working ridiculous hours, sometimes 90-100 hour weeks, and regularly went 12 days without a day off. We had no family nearby. Surprise surprise I found it very difficult as a new mother, had PND and was incredibly lonely. On top of this, COVID happened when DC1 was young (DH worked throughout) and all in all it was a really difficult time for both of us.

(The background is relevant as I think it helps explain my strength of feeling about this.)

Anyway- We are expecting DC3 early next year. This time DH is in a new job and gets 6 months paternity leave. Firstly, I realise how incredibly fortunate we are and I am very excited to experience the newborn stage in hopefully a much more positive way.

However, already a few comments have been made to him by (male) friends along the lines of "how are you planning to fill your time?" "Won't you get bored?" Etc etc. Last week a friend told him "you definitely need a project to focus on". We spoke about it afterwards and I said I think we'll have more than enough with our joint project of caring for a newborn, looking after two older DC and supporting each other. We have several trips planned too. DH did agree, but also casually mentioned he was considered signing up for a marathon/half marathon (or similar sporting event) and trying to get a PB.

Now - before I get the usual flaming for daring to suggest my DH should prioritise family over personal hobbies, I fully hope and expect that we will BOTH have time to do plenty of things for ourselves (1 DC is in school, the other is in preschool part time). I expect he'll be able to spend a good deal of time on hobbies, and obviously I want us both to have a really enjoyable time and make the most of it. We won't want to be in each others pockets 24/7, and I anticipate there'll be lots of time when I'm seeing friends and family and he can do what he chooses.

However, I really feel uneasy about him having a 'project' like a big sporting event to focus on. He is very focused and driven about this type of thing. Knowing him, he would expend a lot of physical and mental energy on it and be quite preoccupied with it, when in my view we should both be focusing for this period on our family. We also have quite a bit of DIY stuff to do around the house. The more time we can each fit in for our own stuff (exercising/hobbies/seeing friends) the better, but I think if he has a specific "project" it's bound to create resentment, particularly given the history of my past experience.

AIBU

I also think it's so typical of (some) men to be suggesting he'll be bored/need something to focus on etc etc - does anyone suggest that to a women about to start
maternity leave?

This would have been my idea of hell! 6 months?!!!!! When mine were born my DH got two weeks paid paternity leave (police) and by the end of it I was SO relieved to see the back of him! Don't get me wrong he was great with the babies for the first week but I couldn't get into any routine with him there and even for babies 2 and 3, once he was working shifts again, we got into a calm routine much more easily.
Maybe this frustration was an early warning sign of our divorce 18 years later!

I have a bigger problem with your husband's friends' comments than anything else. Their comments felt sexist and rude and disrespectful to you. It was like they planted the seed that he will have all this leisure time and needs to find ways to fill it that have nothing to do with its actual purpose, which is paternity leave, not personal leave.

Something like training for a marathon would absolutely be a daily time commitment and I have seen some people get a little obsessive about this. If you are concerned he has that kind of personality (and I got the sense that you are) then I would definitely have a problem with this.

I understand that in theory it's a real gift for you to have this time together. If he is already worried he will be bored, though, then perhaps it would be better for him to just go back to work.

If I owned this company and I found out that one of my employees was planning to use his paternity leave to train for a marathon, I'd be furious and likely stop being so generous going forward.

Two parents home for 6 months with one baby and older kids at preschool/school should give plenty of capacity for you to both have some time each and time together. I don't think the project is a problem- if he wants to use his time for himself to run or do a project then great, it sounds like the issue is the concern that it turns into he has all the fun, you pick up all the slog for 6 months... and that will only change with willing and communication- talk about how to both contribute what you can, how to support each other, how you split the jobs, how to ask each other for help when you need it so you don't feel like you're lcarrying everything. Both being off makes it an easier discussion in many ways- if he has time/money towards a hobby in the 6 months, allocate yourself the same time/money to do something for yourself. Nothing will change unless you change something...

This - it should be pretty ironclad so for the first 3 weeks you do nothing but rest and recover and feed the baby whilst he does everything else. Then as time progresses he does monday early morning so you can sleep and then gets a couple of hours off in the middle of the day and then all hands on deck for afterschool etc. On Tuesday switch around etc. I do agree that a half marathon ought to be achievable but he needs to schedule his runs around his free time not family time and there is no reason why he can't use a running buggy on his slow long runs (which are meant to be slow for a reason) even if he doesn't on the 2 or 3 shorter ones. Its also really important that you carve out time for you - equal free time. If you can encourage mixed feeding tbh I would as it means he can give a bottle and you can go off.

Two adults home all day every day? You're going to end up bored stiff. There's not enough to occupy you both, so you absolutely should both have a project of some kind to give your days structure. I loved being home for the first year, but had my DH been home too, I think there'd have been chunks of the day when we didn't know what to with ourselves and we'd be under each others feet.

Going from a really intense working week, to just being at home, albeit with a new baby, takes some getting used to. I think a half marathon is an excellent aim, and hopefully you'll end up with a weekly schedule that gives you both time for your own interests.

I think encouraging mothers to go back at 6mo instead of 12mo is negative though, and if that's the cost of extra pat leave (not in OP's case, but the SPL case) then I don't think it's worth it.

The policy doesn't actually encourage anything. A woman has to 'allow' her leave to be shared with her partner. It is not his default right (I have to sign a declaration that I was taking less leave to allow my DP to take some of his SPL). Whilst you might not have wanted to do that, surely you can acknowledge that for other people that might have been desirable? How can women having a choice be bad?

All the things you are frustrated by aren't fixed by a few months of paternity leave.

This is a classic "the problem is not entirely solved by this measure so lets not bother implementing something which will help" argument, which, if followed to it's natural conclusion guarantees that nothing ever changes. Something can be a good idea without solving a problem entirely.

Me and my DP did shared parental leave. He is now a SAHD. I am very happy in my job. It's been great for our family. I do not recognise your description of how men behave in parental leave but perhaps I have been fortunate in my relationship and in my friendship group.

I'm against forcing women into "get back asap" male patterns.

Literally no-one is talking about forcing women into anything.

Actually I think you both should be pursuing a project if you are both off, your don’t need two adults to care for a baby (when other dc are in childcare) once initial recovery is over (few days unless complications) you should both get equal free time!

Why don't you go back to work after 6 months and leave him with the kids? Then you won't miss out on pay etc and he may actually appreciate how hard it is. Hence I voted YABU as both of you at home for 6 months is unnecessary.

why on earth should a mother go back to work at 6 months if she wants to spend time with her baby?

Are we trying to go backwards or something? When we should encourage and celebrate paternity leave, instead let's reduce maternity leave? Are you nuts?

Absolutely agree!!! I went back to work at 6 months with my DD as I went on maternity leave at 29 weeks with DD as very demanding job with long hours and was totally drained from hyperemesis earlier in the pregnancy. We couldn’t afford for me to take longer than 9 months total off. It was disastrous as just much too early and I ended up leaving my career for a few years entirely as well as giving up breastfeeding, a combination of trying formula to see if she’d sleep a bit better and milk also drying up from time at work. Plus a miserable few months when I was so stressed I’d make a mistake at work what with being so sleep deprived. I wasn’t even able to enjoy my days off with my baby as was just too overwhelmed with everything. Financially we’re still paying off the debt from giving up work then but it was absolutely the best thing to do. This time around I took the absolute maximum which worked out at 14 months with annual leave, returning to work just after DDs first birthday. The contrast couldn’t have been more different, I’m loving being back at work, she’s loving nursery, still breastfeeding and DD not half as sick as her older sister was. Taking the full year plus definitely much better for all of us

I want to take the year. I'm hoping it'll be a really special time and such a unique opportunity given we have busy lives generally. I'm not naive and I'm sure there'll be some bickering and adjustment, but I wouldn't want to miss out on some of my maternity leave just to try to "teach him a lesson"

Well, ok, then I suppose you just deal with two bored people facing another across a baby.

Could you ask that he doesn't take on a huge personal project but that he keeps his running to a non targeted x time per day that works for the family?
Men do seem to need a physical outlet of some kind. Tbf if it's not this he will maybe find some garden or other physical project that needs done. (Or he thinks needs done). My husband seems to disappear every Sunday dinner time to do a random project. Drives me nuts but I can see it's a need he has.

Casually mention to him about your own plans to run a half marathon. Get a running buggy if you haven’t already. Make sure he takes it in the last 6 months as that’s when baby can go in a running buggy. And also won’t need as much boob!

bit sad if you need to be at work with someone telling you what to do to be entertained. Most of us could not work at all and never be bored, it's just a financial problem 😂

I run, and frankly I don't like running buggies for babies. I wouldn't have put one of mine in one until they were a year old. I know people do, but they get really bounced around and I find that very uncomfortable. I wouldn't even let DH to run with one either.

Baby usually with me in the sling, or the pram. I had a baby during lockdown too, so no outside help with a DH working insane hours!
I don't have any friends that have a nanny etc, and very few have grandparent help, including myself.

A couple of friends have a husband who works shifts, so can be around during 'normal working hours' for appointments etc, but other than that you just "manage". I renovated 75% of a house during maternity leave. You just work around the baby

I have a running buggy and a bike trailer, and I have run with both DCs, though not as much as I thought I might as DS2 is very much a Cot Napper. What I'd say is: running buggies are mostly not suitable for use before 6 months, because they don't lie flat, or even if they do, you shouldn't recline them when running as it changes their centre of gravity and they can be less stable. After 6 months, unless your baby is small or has poor neck control, they should be fine - but you'd judge based on your own baby and the surfaces you're running on. If the buggy has decent suspension, it shouldn't jolt the baby around if you stick to fairly flat, even terrain. My bike trailer that converts to a running buggy has a special sling seat, which supports a younger baby to lie flat and protects from jolting; I was happy enough to run with a younger baby in that.

In any case, there's nothing to stop OP's DH taking the preschooler out in the running buggy while OP is with the baby. It'd give him a better workout too.

I think YABU. After the first few sleepless weeks, it will be good for you both to get some exercise and time to yourself most days. If he chooses to use his time running, I don’t see the problem. He won’t need to practise running a full half-marathon until just before the event.

I wouldn't have a problem with him going running regularly. I got back into running and going to the gym, gently, when DD1 was three months old. I did the Great North Run when DD2 was eight months old. I did a seven mile race a few days before I found out I was pregnant with her.

Also HP and the Half Blood Prince was released two days after DD1 was born. Had fun reading that when breastfeeding. I also watched the entire boxset of Dogtanian on mat leave before I had her - TV goals!

Suggest you also do the marathon and can schedule different training schedules and the other one have the dc.

Bet he won't agree.

Honestly, I'd sit down and set out all your concerns as you've stated them here, ask him to share his proposed training plan (no they're not set in stone, but usually the whole 12/16-week training block is planned in advance), talk about whether he can take the older DC in a running stroller for easy runs, talk about how you'll get equal time too (maybe a small project for yourself wouldn't be a bad thing?).

To be fair my dd was very sick and had constant hospital appointments so my experience in that respect might be skewed.

I’m a woman with one child. I’ve never been unable to understand comments about spending time with wife and baby or family time.

What do you do with yourselves stand there with bowed heads staring at the baby? It sounds really boring.

I decorated the house when on maternity leave and have always kept up my hiking and horse riding.

@bobandbrenda I think this is more about the sexism surrounding expectations of men vs women and your concerns about your husband’s particular personality than about a project like a half marathon (which if you’ve already got a bit of baseline fitness is pretty achievable with, say, three runs a week, and only a few of those needing to be a bit lengthier).

I wonder if it’s worth trying to mentally separate out the different aspects of this. The comments from other men are telling about the lack of understanding many men still have about the reality of leave to look after a baby. Even if you weren’t concerned about your husband specifically, those comments would be annoying in their own right. I think it’s fine to be irritated by comments like that. It’s easy to be annoyed by the inbuilt unfairnesses around pregnancy and leave for women; I had a baby ten days ago by c section and (apart from getting out for a walk each day, which I don’t count) it’s the longest I’ve gone in my adult life without exercising. I’m very annoyed by the recovery time, and I’m having to mentally separate that from the fact that my husband is still able to get out at least once a day to do some decent exercise. It’s not his fault, of course, that the physical burden and ramifications of pregnancy and childbirth largely fall on women, but it does need effort to hold those two realities in mind as separate entities.

However, given that you will both be off simultaneously for six months, you should both be able to have hobbies, as you have said yourself, and even a ‘project’ if you want to. Given that the training required for a half marathon is not burdensome, it’s quite possible that the amount of running he would be doing anyway would be fairly equivalent to half marathon training (perhaps with a few tweaks around a handful of longer runs nearer the date) even if he wasn’t signed up for one.

You seem to have identified that the issue is his personality trait of becoming overly invested in things. Perhaps you also fear he won’t be as present for childcare. You might not be able to change this about him - though he may be capable of reflecting on it. All I can suggest is bringing it up with him and saying that you have no issue with a half marathon in principle as long as it doesn’t become all consuming. You could have a think about some boundaries around that, like agreeing his number of runs each week and times that will work best. You might want to choose your own project as well before discussing with him, and talk about how you will both support each other to fit these things in. Lastly, it might be an opportunity to make clear your expectations around an equal share of the burden of childcare. Only you know your husband though and whether this might work.

By the way, six months of paternity leave is unreal! Can you tell us where he works?!