AIBU to think it's "paternity leave" not "personal project leave"?

[bobandbrenda]

For our first two DC, DH got the standard 2 weeks paternity leave. He was working ridiculous hours, sometimes 90-100 hour weeks, and regularly went 12 days without a day off. We had no family nearby. Surprise surprise I found it very difficult as a new mother, had PND and was incredibly lonely. On top of this, COVID happened when DC1 was young (DH worked throughout) and all in all it was a really difficult time for both of us.

(The background is relevant as I think it helps explain my strength of feeling about this.)

Anyway- We are expecting DC3 early next year. This time DH is in a new job and gets 6 months paternity leave. Firstly, I realise how incredibly fortunate we are and I am very excited to experience the newborn stage in hopefully a much more positive way.

However, already a few comments have been made to him by (male) friends along the lines of "how are you planning to fill your time?" "Won't you get bored?" Etc etc. Last week a friend told him "you definitely need a project to focus on". We spoke about it afterwards and I said I think we'll have more than enough with our joint project of caring for a newborn, looking after two older DC and supporting each other. We have several trips planned too. DH did agree, but also casually mentioned he was considered signing up for a marathon/half marathon (or similar sporting event) and trying to get a PB.

Now - before I get the usual flaming for daring to suggest my DH should prioritise family over personal hobbies, I fully hope and expect that we will BOTH have time to do plenty of things for ourselves (1 DC is in school, the other is in preschool part time). I expect he'll be able to spend a good deal of time on hobbies, and obviously I want us both to have a really enjoyable time and make the most of it. We won't want to be in each others pockets 24/7, and I anticipate there'll be lots of time when I'm seeing friends and family and he can do what he chooses.

However, I really feel uneasy about him having a 'project' like a big sporting event to focus on. He is very focused and driven about this type of thing. Knowing him, he would expend a lot of physical and mental energy on it and be quite preoccupied with it, when in my view we should both be focusing for this period on our family. We also have quite a bit of DIY stuff to do around the house. The more time we can each fit in for our own stuff (exercising/hobbies/seeing friends) the better, but I think if he has a specific "project" it's bound to create resentment, particularly given the history of my past experience.

AIBU

I also think it's so typical of (some) men to be suggesting he'll be bored/need something to focus on etc etc - does anyone suggest that to a women about to start
maternity leave?

But where is your baby when you're doing these other things? Assuming you don't have the dad at home at the same time, which isn't the norm for most mothers.
I maybe had a couple of hours a day while one would nap. Once you've had a properly hot cup of coffee and done some housework and (endless) laundry, there's not much time left - and not much energy left given you haven't slept much in the night - certainly not enough to paint the stairs or complete a training course.
If you have an au pair or very helpful parents/siblings I imagine the experience can be quite different.

I think doing a sporting activity like running is good for mental health and it’s known that men find new born stage difficult emotionally. So actually I’d be ok with it I think. As long as he times it in a way not to interfere with childcare responsibilities.
Good for his MH and good to have some time apart while he’s out for his runs.

I am so, so jealous of all the people who had babies that actually left them enough time to sleep and do, well, anything! Mine has turned out to have ASD & ADHD, so maybe that is the difference? Also a milk allergy that meant a LOT of screaming, constant colic, and vomiting several times a night, necessitating multiple bedding changes every night. I fed them, bathed them, did laundry, bounced them, ate intermittently, and got a shower about once a week. That was it for my whole maternity leave. Returning to work was awful. I lost my job as was so exhausted I couldn’t function.

This made me laugh out loud!

OP I totally get it, if your DH has a tendency to hyper fixate then the training and PB will definitely take over and become the most important priority to him-speaking from experience....

Appreciate all opinions - that's why I started the thread. I can see what you're saying, and agree I also found maternity leave (while lonely and difficult) quite boring at times and filled time with little jobs in the garden and house. As I said, I think we'll both have time for lots of fun stuff and we are definitely not joined at the hip. I think I'm a bit fixated on the idea of a goal/project "taking over" ... But perhaps it's more about how it's executed. I do recognise that I carry a certain amount of resentment from last time (perhaps unfairly given the time DH put in with his training when the older two were very young has unlocked lots of benefits for family life, including his 4 day week now and other things). I think this clouds my judgement a bit.

What has he done wrong other than his friends making comments ?

I’m a runner and i think training for a half marathon pb is possibly fair enough. Training for a marathon pb probably isn’t. I’ve trained for several marathons alongside not working and it still had a significant impact on family life. (The youngest was secondary school age). Marathon training plans are 16 weeks long so, at best, he’s going to start training when baby is 2 months old!

Given that he’s not really been around for the newborn phase before, an honest conversation might be needed about how hard it is and about how difficult it was for you before and how much you are looking forward to his support this time.

It doesn't take two people full time to look after a baby while the older two children are in childcare most the time.

This will be an amazing opportunity for you both to do something that you find rewarding AS WELL as raising your children together, and spending time as a family, it really should be the best of both worlds, so don't resent him for wanting to do something for himself before you've even started, and don't become a martyr over it.

Rather than assuming the worst from him you should be looking at how you can spend your time too!

I think you need to explain that while you'll support his hobby for every hour he has to himself you'll be claiming the same.

Thanks I appreciate this perspective.

I think both of you having 6 months off is pretty surreal honestly and you should both have time to do a lot of things. Might as well take advantage of the time! My husband had the two weeks which felt like a bonus to me (I am from the states where no one gets anything). I think I wouldn't have wanted my husband around for 6 months anyway - he'd get really bored and would need some projects!

So unless you have a house that needs a lot of work or a particularly challenging childcare situation or some other responsibilities I think you each having plenty of time to enjoy yourselves sounds like the only thing to do here really.

You mention quite a bit of diy to do - if those don't get down during this 6 month period, when on earth will they get done? So split the time three ways - children, house, hobbies. (Not three equal parts though!)

Yet some of us are bored onML. I was really bored withDD1 and only got 16 weeks with her. Was ready to be back at work by the time she was7 weeks old. By time I hadDS I was self employed and doing p/t work within 3 weeks

Can to say this! I recommend the Thule Glide (or Urban Glide if you want to use it as more of an all rounder).

All opinions welcome, but I wasn't going to bother replying to this one 😂

I think it's now obligatory that there has to be one response on every thread declaring "problem X is all your fault and you should never have married/had children with this man".

If my DH doesn’t have a clear job, he’s a nightmare to be around. I‘d let him do it, but give him clear parameters to check first:

• we took it in turns to sleep in baby‘s room rather than have baby in with us. Once breastfeeding was established, DH could feed him with expressed milk/ formula overnight.
• The person not on nights does the school/ nursery morning routine and drop offs.
• DH checks you are fit and well before heading out for a run.
• Runs happen while older two are at school/ nursery. Otherwise, he must have a clear plan for how to look after them that doesn’t require you being the default (my 8yr old accompanies DH on runs on his bike).
• Who prepares food for tea/ lunch before heading out?
• How will you manage bedtimes/ bath for the older two that day?
• Who does school admin?
• How do you get in your groceries?
• Who cleans and when?
• How do you get in kid supplies - from nappies to new school shoes?
• Who does Dr/ hair/ dentist appointments for all children?

We also had clear times of day each was responsible for DS. That meant when DS developed a nasty rash on DH‘s afternoon, he was the one who went to the pharmacy and ultimately children’s out-of-hours. Not me (I kept my phone with me for that one).

Give him areas to be responsible for to help split the mental load. If he messes up, he repairs it. But also let him do it his way.

Make sure you both follow any routine you have for baby/ toddler.

Good luck!

Agree with this. Seems like there will be plenty of time for family time, house projects, and personal projects with two parents at home. Make sure when you’re recovered you get some time also, even if lunch with friends, an exercise class whatever. Hope you enjoy it! We did shared leave which overlapped both times and it was really special time

Are you breastfeeding ?! I think it limits how much dad can do early on . I’d plan the time and discuss expectations . Early on is want him to be doing all the housework and cooking whilst you concentrate on feeding and recovery . Then say after 8-12 weeks block the week with time for each of you independently and as a family . But be clear baby kids and your mental health have to come first . Hobby never trumps you if you are struggling with sleep for example . The projects are after everyone is happy and well .

Given the history I can understand why you concerned but it doesn't actually sound like he is the one making lots of comments here? It's not unreasonable for him to do a bit more running whilst he is off work (the running pram is a great option to combine childcare). What are the things you would like to do with the extra time you will have?

Relationships die because we think the worst of each other instead of assuming the best and then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I wouldn't object to him entering a race, it feels a bit mean to be honest.

My DP had 6 months off too - we had a great time. I hope you enjoy it too.

From reading your replies, if he’s otherwise a good dad and partner I’d be happy for him to go for a half marathon. The training isn’t ridiculous at all really plus it encourages you to get outside and get some fresh air and exercise which is so prudent with a new baby.
My question would be - what about you! Surely it’s only fair you get the same. Make sure it doesn’t become you sat at home all the time while he’s out running. If he’s got say 3-4 training runs a week make sure the same time is carved out for you too, whatever it is you want to do.

My company also offers 6mo paternity leave and all the men I know, including very doting/loving dads, have used it to play golf, travel etc.

On the other hand as long as he knows his top prio is childcare and he needs to be available during [xxx] key hours/activities, it's sometimes quite nice for a household to have a bit more slack in the system. It is very handy the first couple of months especially when the baby doesn't know night from day, to be able to have someone there!

Perhaps you could convince him to make the DIY his project.

For the record though, this is why I roll my eyes when people say "the solution to the motherhood pay gap is to give men longer paternity leave". That's just us using our advocacy efforts to get men a few months off for golfing.

Last year my husband had 6month paternity leave (for our second child) and it was a NIGHTMARE! (He worked for an insurance company that changed their paternity policy after our first child so same boat as your husband).

very much like your husband he kept joking that he was going to enjoy the “holiday”, he wanted to work on his fitness and couldn’t wait to go on long runs. When I kept reminding him that it wasn’t a holiday it was leave to look after and bond with the new baby and help to support me following birth, he would agree, nod and yet I KNEW he was not really taking it onboard.

Baby came, he gave about two weeks of “help” whilst I recovered from surgery (c-section) and then he started the running. Each day my eldest went to nursery he would drop her off then go for a run and come back HOURS later! If I asked if he could look after the baby so I could have a bath ect I always got push back “she prefers you, she won’t settle with me, just just keeps crying, where are the nappies, do I need to feed her ect ect that I use to loose it and explain that it was not my responsibility to be in charge of the new baby 24/7! I was entitled to have a bath/shower/nap in peace! Even now thinking back on that period I feel anger and resentment to my husband as he 100% felt the break from work was a holiday for him and he spent so much time doing what he wanted, running, going out, gaming that it really effected our marriage. (We use to get wrong if I came downstairs and wanted to watch the tv as he was using it to game and if baby woke up from the nap I had to go get her as he was mid game!!)
It all came to a head when I told him I basically was a single parent so he may as well bugger of to his parents if he wanted to act like a selfish prick and not use this time to bond with his child. Once he knew I was serious and it wasn’t “my hormones” 🙄 he picked up the slack and we came to a compromise. He could go on his runs/game at times we would agree on and then when he returned I would get the same time to myself when he would take baby. He was NOT allowed to interrupt me, ask questions about what to do (open your eyes and look where the nappies are or use your initiative as to if she needs a feed ect) and if he encroached on “my time” then he had to do a nighttime feed 😂

I think you need to have a discussion before baby arrives and set out your expectations. Come to a compromise that he can do his half marathon and train BUT not to the detriment of you or the family. If he has 2 hours running then you get 2 hours (same day) to yourself once he is home.

I think both of youvare not unreasonable.

I think it's not surprising that you are worried, given your previous experiences.

I think it's pretty normal to think youvare going to get all sorts of projects done while on maternity leave. I thought that even the second time round.

A half marathon is not unreasonable. A full marathon would be very unreasonable.

Can you sit down together and come up with some shared goals, including focusing on the kids and getting some house stuff done?

I’m just going to put out there that I don’t agree in such a long paternity leave. It’s ridiculous and diminishes the fact that new mothers medically need the leave to recover from pregnancy and childbirth.

in addition A newborn does not need 2 adults to care for it

Definitely I wasn’t either!

Yes you’re right, horses for courses and all that, but I would say the vast majority of new (and even veteran!) mums are not sitting about or painting their nails, but deep in the thick of it.

In my experience, the ones who manage to write novels/revise for exams etc etc are the exception that proves the rule