AIBU to think it's "paternity leave" not "personal project leave"?

[bobandbrenda]

For our first two DC, DH got the standard 2 weeks paternity leave. He was working ridiculous hours, sometimes 90-100 hour weeks, and regularly went 12 days without a day off. We had no family nearby. Surprise surprise I found it very difficult as a new mother, had PND and was incredibly lonely. On top of this, COVID happened when DC1 was young (DH worked throughout) and all in all it was a really difficult time for both of us.

(The background is relevant as I think it helps explain my strength of feeling about this.)

Anyway- We are expecting DC3 early next year. This time DH is in a new job and gets 6 months paternity leave. Firstly, I realise how incredibly fortunate we are and I am very excited to experience the newborn stage in hopefully a much more positive way.

However, already a few comments have been made to him by (male) friends along the lines of "how are you planning to fill your time?" "Won't you get bored?" Etc etc. Last week a friend told him "you definitely need a project to focus on". We spoke about it afterwards and I said I think we'll have more than enough with our joint project of caring for a newborn, looking after two older DC and supporting each other. We have several trips planned too. DH did agree, but also casually mentioned he was considered signing up for a marathon/half marathon (or similar sporting event) and trying to get a PB.

Now - before I get the usual flaming for daring to suggest my DH should prioritise family over personal hobbies, I fully hope and expect that we will BOTH have time to do plenty of things for ourselves (1 DC is in school, the other is in preschool part time). I expect he'll be able to spend a good deal of time on hobbies, and obviously I want us both to have a really enjoyable time and make the most of it. We won't want to be in each others pockets 24/7, and I anticipate there'll be lots of time when I'm seeing friends and family and he can do what he chooses.

However, I really feel uneasy about him having a 'project' like a big sporting event to focus on. He is very focused and driven about this type of thing. Knowing him, he would expend a lot of physical and mental energy on it and be quite preoccupied with it, when in my view we should both be focusing for this period on our family. We also have quite a bit of DIY stuff to do around the house. The more time we can each fit in for our own stuff (exercising/hobbies/seeing friends) the better, but I think if he has a specific "project" it's bound to create resentment, particularly given the history of my past experience.

AIBU

I also think it's so typical of (some) men to be suggesting he'll be bored/need something to focus on etc etc - does anyone suggest that to a women about to start
maternity leave?

Training for a half marathon will be fine.
Encourage him to take the three year old to preschool in a jogging pram.
Try to simultaneously visit parks and gardens, with DH jogging about the tracks and you caring for the kids and then swapping. Similar with swimming.

It is so indulgent of our society to afford to pay two parents to take six months parental leave at the same time. It must be a very profitable business. You are fortunate.

You will both be able to tick off most of the chores and even take a holiday.

One of my colleagues took 9 months paternity leave. He went to Sicily to “find himself” for three of these months.

I’m going against the grain, I think it is completely acceptable for him to have a project as long as you also get time to do your thing. It does completely depend on the baby and the needs of your eldest children, but I ran a marathon when each of my three was a year old so I don’t see why a dad can’t fit in the time, it’s only about 5-6 hours a week of training! And my babies were not unicorns who slept all the time. Then you get that same time, after the first couple of months I don’t think you need two parents all the time to care for a baby. It’s lovely if you can have lots of time as a family but what a great opportunity to get some other goals achieved too, neither of you will get this long off work again! I agree with previous poster who said mat leave can be incredibly dull.

How can a mother recover from childbirth without support though? Also it will often be used when there is more than one child to look after.

If a private company wants to offer it as an incentive to attract good staff, where's the harm? It's not as if it's using taxpayers money.

Why is families having more time together to support each other a bad thing? Kids aren't young for long, there's plenty of time for work and other things

I think a half marathon is a perfect project as it's totally individual and flexible. Apart from the race itself he fits the training in around the family, and doesn't have any committed times/places to be. It's ideal.
If you both can't get time for 3 individual runs/walks a week between your childcare commitments then there's something wrong (not suggesting you run obv. but walking alone without the buggy/sling would be great for you too).

I’m intruiged why everyone thinks a marathon is unreasonable? It really can be done without having a huge impact on the family (going out early morning/ late evening/ taking a running buggy/ communicating with your partner about the best times to be out of the house for an hour or two).

I think a lot of people on this thread have never experienced PND/traumatic birth or a fussy, colicky or non sleeping baby. And probably half of them also live next door to their Mum and have childcare on tap.

The problem with the 'taking equal time' approach is that quite often when you are experiencing any of the above issues, you don't want to go out for a run/golf/spa day or "focus on your hobbies". You want to stay in your own home and sleep/have a bath/watch a trashy film with your baby nearby. You want someone to look after you and chat to you and bring you a cuppa while you breastfeed, or make the dinner so you don't have to, and do the laundry.

OP you sound like you have reasonable concerns, but it also sounds like your husband isn't an arse. Is the problem that he hasn't actually spelled out that he understands how tough it was for you last time and that of course the running would take a back seat if you needed it to (whether or not that is 'reasonable' in terms of physical presence required for the children, but in terms of what you need to feel supported and aid your recovery).

I think it's brilliant.

A new mother needs someone to look after her. Especially if there are older children.

It actually recognises the importance of fathers looking after children.

Why do we insist on making parenting hard and miserable?

Thank you

Depends on how fit you are to start with, I think. IME, full marathon training can be very time consuming, and make you quite tired and grumpy.

Yes - as I’ve said elsewhere - different people have different experiences - but as reflected in this thread I would say the people who have the time/ability to take on additional projects are the minority, not the majority.

I had PPA, a preemie, and my husband and I are immigrants so we have never had anyone to help with anything. He went on his first work trip when my daughter was 4 weeks old and regularly after. So no... I don't fit into anything you're suggesting. I think 2 weeks off was a lot more than I anticipated 'but' I wouldn't have been opposed to a few more weeks as my daughter was eating every 2 hours for a couple of months and we were both very, very tired.

I just don't think an entire 6 months needs to be dedicated to two people looking after a few children and there's plenty of time to do something else too. For both parents of course! And yes to splitting all the household work while you are both at home too.

Personally I wouldn’t have an issue with DH training for a half marathon. It’s not that time consuming. He could get up early 5am ish and get it done before getting the kids off to
school.

I think that (understandably given your experiences so far) you are very sensitive to the idea that your DH might not keep supporting you/the kids as top priority if he gets focussed on a sports event like a marathon/half marathon.

I think that's very understandable and given he sounds a basically decent sort, I think you can be open with him. Remind how much you struggled last time(s), and how much you've been looking forward to this parental leave being a more directly shared endeavour. That you love him (I assume 🙂) and want him and you to both have opportunities to do things beyond child-rearing, but that for both of you that needs to be the shared priority.

Not an argument, not an ultimatum, just a conversation - he might have forgotten, or even not fully appreciated, how hard things were for you before. If he's a good husband and a good man, he will understand your concerns and can then be mindful of them.

My company offers it and many male friends/ husbands of my friends have done it at other companies, and I don’t know anyone who has used it for golf or personal travel. My partner and I have done paid shared parental leave both times, and while we’ve travelled as a family, he’s also done a few months on his own after I’ve gone back to work. I think it’s great, gets more men properly involved in parenting as a primary parent, and developing a good bond. It also, in my experience, helps keep a career going.

can be not hold his leave until you go back to work? Seems kind of mad for you to have 6 months off together tbh.

6 months off for paternity leave is such a significant luxury you just don’t see it at all. I’d be tempted to actually delay his paternity leave until the baby is older. You’ll most likely do and want to do everything with a newborn but with an older baby I think you’d actually get more shared care and ability for you to have some downtime and a break.

It really doesn't diminish anything.

Most women are physically over child birth very quickly.

Parental leave is about caring for and bonding with the child. It's about setting the blueprint for how you want your family to work going forward. How many women come on here moaning (quite reasonably) about the fact that they are the default parent for their children and all of the mental and physical load that goes along with that? Why should men's careers continue unhampered whilst women's careers stall due to maternity leave, often followed by a return to work in some kind of part time / flexible capacity which inhibits their progression?

Most people don't organise their parental leave such that they have 2 people at home together (I suspect the OP doesn't work and that's why this their situation). Most people take it in turns - Mother has first 6 months, Father has second 6 months (or something like that). Most companies who offer it are flexible.

ETA - I have just read an update from the OP that her DP gets paternity leave in addition to her 1yr, so it's not shared and that's why they are home together.

I find it incredible that anyone would think giving families flexibility over how they care for their children is a bad thing. It's women who are disadvantaged by the status quo.

Cool. If he can do a project, then so can you. But I would make clear he owes you re the last few times and he needs to up his game. But lm assuming you've had chats about it as this is child 3

We had twins and straightaway my husband decided to "really" get into chess. Nice try sunshine 🤣. Needless to say it didn't happen

What needs to be achieved on shared leave is the rejection of the idea that a man is 'helping'.

The danger with a project is he can see project time as essential, and time with baby as 'helping' - meaning you should be grateful for any time doing that, because you are the default baby person.

Baby is the main project if you accept you are a parent!

Hobby time can be shared out amongst both parents to do what they like with, when they're not needed with the baby.

@preparingforthepileon the OP is in employment hence having a year off with a portion that isn’t paid.

@bobandbrenda Would it be better if he took the leave in chunks rather than in one go? Including the last three months of your leave so you can then get more sleep etc in the run up to your return to work. A project is fine if realistic, and done in personal time, not family time. We had a four month period when we were both off together with our daughter, we had personal time if we wanted, but the proviso was that was cancelled if the other was ill, tired etc.

If your maternity is partially unpaid, is it not a need/option for you to return to work and his Paternity can be used for taking care of all the children and household life (SAHD) for the duration?

Going against the grain here. If you’re both off at the same time for six months I can’t see why you both can’t get a couple of hours a day each to do what you want.

Thanks - i noticed that just after I posted and edited.

Lay really clear boundaries down. Allot the amount of childfree hours you are both entitled to per day and stick to it. If he wants to spend that hour or two running then that's his business, let him at it.