AIBU to think it's "paternity leave" not "personal project leave"?

[bobandbrenda]

For our first two DC, DH got the standard 2 weeks paternity leave. He was working ridiculous hours, sometimes 90-100 hour weeks, and regularly went 12 days without a day off. We had no family nearby. Surprise surprise I found it very difficult as a new mother, had PND and was incredibly lonely. On top of this, COVID happened when DC1 was young (DH worked throughout) and all in all it was a really difficult time for both of us.

(The background is relevant as I think it helps explain my strength of feeling about this.)

Anyway- We are expecting DC3 early next year. This time DH is in a new job and gets 6 months paternity leave. Firstly, I realise how incredibly fortunate we are and I am very excited to experience the newborn stage in hopefully a much more positive way.

However, already a few comments have been made to him by (male) friends along the lines of "how are you planning to fill your time?" "Won't you get bored?" Etc etc. Last week a friend told him "you definitely need a project to focus on". We spoke about it afterwards and I said I think we'll have more than enough with our joint project of caring for a newborn, looking after two older DC and supporting each other. We have several trips planned too. DH did agree, but also casually mentioned he was considered signing up for a marathon/half marathon (or similar sporting event) and trying to get a PB.

Now - before I get the usual flaming for daring to suggest my DH should prioritise family over personal hobbies, I fully hope and expect that we will BOTH have time to do plenty of things for ourselves (1 DC is in school, the other is in preschool part time). I expect he'll be able to spend a good deal of time on hobbies, and obviously I want us both to have a really enjoyable time and make the most of it. We won't want to be in each others pockets 24/7, and I anticipate there'll be lots of time when I'm seeing friends and family and he can do what he chooses.

However, I really feel uneasy about him having a 'project' like a big sporting event to focus on. He is very focused and driven about this type of thing. Knowing him, he would expend a lot of physical and mental energy on it and be quite preoccupied with it, when in my view we should both be focusing for this period on our family. We also have quite a bit of DIY stuff to do around the house. The more time we can each fit in for our own stuff (exercising/hobbies/seeing friends) the better, but I think if he has a specific "project" it's bound to create resentment, particularly given the history of my past experience.

AIBU

I also think it's so typical of (some) men to be suggesting he'll be bored/need something to focus on etc etc - does anyone suggest that to a women about to start
maternity leave?

Did you miss the part where they will have a newborn, and already have two children?

Edited as Op clarified

Plan is for him to have 2 weeks after the birth, then the remaining chunk to start when baby is 3 months. That's the only way you're allowed to split it (I guess because it would make it trickier for them to get cover for the role if needed). Our thinking is baby will (hopefully) be very sleepy in the first month at least

I think it's very nice for families to have two parents home and helps put a bit of slack into the system so everyone is that much less stressed with modern life.

I think encouraging mothers to go back at 6mo instead of 12mo is negative though, and if that's the cost of extra pat leave (not in OP's case, but the SPL case) then I don't think it's worth it.

Age 6-12mo is important for bonding, for continuing breastfeeding, for having fun with the baby not just caring for a blob and physically recovering, etc.

Anyway, as I said I work in a place that has 6mo paid for mums and dads. Equal paradise right. Nope, the dads take a few months at the end for Disney vacation (usually alongside mum), the mums have a huge stressful workload when they return, often going into non-partner-track jobs, etc. The men talk about how great and fun their pat leave was and continue to schedule meetings during nursery pickup hours that they aren't affected by. All the things you are frustrated by aren't fixed by a few months of paternity leave.

I am an advocate for return to work programmes that allow women to take extended time off (or some time in a part time or lower stress job) and then return later to career track jobs, ramping back up. I'm against forcing women into "get back asap" male patterns.

ahem.. yes, mothers ARE asked what they plan on doing with their free time!

Maybe not the first month, when they physically need to recover form pregnancy , childbirth, and often surgery, but when you talk about a year maternity leave, the question comes up all the time.

It would sound like an absolute waste of a 6 months leave to do "nothing". Whatever people argue, dads don't have anything to recover from , their wives need help but with 2 adults still plenty of time to make plans, 6 months is a long time.

Better be clear on expectations from the start, need him to be home to do this and that because you are not doing it all, and to take over when you are going doing something.

I am not sure a marathon is much more time consuming than a big DIY project. He's not planning an ultra trail across south America for 6 months

You might find this article helpful. It's written by a Swedish man who used his paternity leave to train for and race the Vasaloppet, a famous annual 90km cross-country ski race through the forests of northern Sweden.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/14/as-a-swedish-man-i-should-have-been-the-perfect-modern-dad-my-failure-was-shameful

He had an absent father. He wanted to escape the family dynamic.

Wait and see what actually happens before getting wound up.

Then help.him come to his own conclusion.

"Sounds great. You'll be training X hours a day so I'll go to these baby groups while you're training then ill go up for Project Mum (a bath, book and nap) while you recover and take new baby. Then we can cook together, ill stay up for the first half of the night as ill be rested and you'll be tired sooner from exercise and looking after DC so then we can swap over."

He won't last a week and if he does then it works great for you both.

Ask him to plan out his training so it doesn’t interfere with his other responsibilities. It could be early meetings or late at night runs. Also a level of flexibility, if you’ve had a rough night, his run gets cancelled.

My DH works for a construction company that offers 6 months paternity leave. Unfortunately we’d already had our children by the time it was introduced.

Think 6 months full time paternity leave a ridiculous benefit, 6 weeks full time leave followed by 3-4 day week for the first 18 months be far more helpful for all the family??

"project mum, bath, book, nap" whilst dads go for a run, Then we can cook together

I don't know if it's more cringey or infuriating to read this kind of bullshit stereotypes.

What about adding dusting and ironing in front of Traitors and Strictly whilst we are at it.

Well yes, you will both have time - split looking after the baby. You don’t need two adults full time to look after a baby. No one is saying you can’t have a hobby , but you unfortunately can’t get over the biological fact that he’s not having the baby so his body won’t be affected. I’d expect him to do all the housework and shopping as well as looking after the baby but that won’t add up to 40 hours a week.

I don't think I'd have a major issue with that to be honest. If he's used to running he'll presumably just go out for a run a few times per week leading up to the marathon.
Just don't let him take up golf.

not necessarily. Depends on the family and existing commitment.

With my first, and no other child at school, would have loved a 6 months leave and the opportunity to go travelling together. By months 2 or 3, once the stitches are healed, a change of scenery would have been brilliant.

Plus depending on the job, some roles you won't actually switch off for a long weekend. You just make your life miserable and more complicated if you do.It's easier to shut it down for a few months.

Would it not be better for him to have leave early on, so he can do school runs etc, if you are planning to breastfeed, so will have more disturbed nights. Then you don't have to drag yourself out of bed to get DC ready etc. in those early weeks

A project that will help you all (decorating, sorting the garage, learning to cook) great, improving his golf score not do great!

As a sole parent of multiples I can’t even begin to imagine what it would be like to have this level of hands on support, but I suggest you divide and conquer.

Have set days each for school run (literal run if it suits) then split the pre schooler activities - you do baby ballet, he does rhyme time etc with a clear timetable. The one who isn’t doing the preschool activities that day has sole charge of the baby whilst the other is out.

then allocate family afternoons (trip to park, walk on beach etc) for you all on certain days and also allocate a “day off” a week for each of you to do whatever you like.

that way, no child feels they do less with one parent, both of you bond with everyone, no one is over whelmed with workload and your family all benefit.

Yes I agree if it’s on offer than for some families the 6 months all in one go would suit them better, thinking of the OPs family with older children they can’t just decamp to Australia for a couple of months. Plus a lot of families just couldn’t afford to travel anyway. The need for partner being around I found is much more at this stage (our youngest 15 months) than it was in the first 6 months

a half marathon - it'd just be a run every second day, with occasional 2 hour ish runs towards the end, not really that bad. a full marathon? a fair bit more training and time. PB - i mean everyone tries to do their PB but when people get obsessed about it and talk about it incessantly it makes me roll my eyes. if he starts talking about ultra marathon then nononononnonono, itll be his new job and you'll need to listen to him talk about running 24/7. I say all this fairly lightheartedly, obvs you cant stop him doing what he choses but hopefully he's chosing first to spend as much (if not more) time as you doing family work. I guess he's never actually done the newborn bit himself? maybe he's just got unrealistic ideas about what it's like? What if you both took up running? that'd be kinda cool as a bonding thing.

Just don't let him take up golf.

😂😂

so true.

Interesting article. He’s pathetic and self absorbed. I wouldn’t have sucked this up as his wife

My school offers this :)

You are so valid for feeling freaked out by these comments after what you've been through previously and knowing your DH as you do.
For what it is worth, I went on Mat Leave and ordered a load of Korean language books because I was definitely going to learn Korean when the baby was napping/nursing ... I don't think I even glanced at those books until she turned one!! 😂 안녕하세요 (Hello) is still about all I've got and she's nearly three!
I think it is quite normal to have completely bonkers ideas about what parental leave might mean, as long as you can adjust to the reality when it arrives and it sounds like you and DH are having loads of sensible and reasonable conversations already about that.
Good luck OP!!

Where I work men have been getting 6 months parental leave for a long time. Not once have I heard of anyone talk about ‘personal projects’. Quite often they spend a portion of the parental leave as primary carer as they spread their leave and the mother’s leave over 12 months, alternating chunks of time off. This is in a a highly male-dominated field.

So maybe it’s just where your DH works that’s a bit backwards?

If there was a middle button between YABU and YANBU I would choose that.

Of course he shouldn't abandon parental duties, and yes it's good to take advantage of any free time to explore other interests.

many women and mothers DO have personal projects, and manage to go through with them.

Why is that backward exactly?

I have never heard of rules you MUST follow when on maternity (or paternity) leave, do what you want (and can).

I'd just keep gently pushing back against too much planning/excitement for this proposed project, reminding him that you'll both be busy with the baby and around the house. If necessary, tell him outright that you're feeling worried that his personal project will creep up in importance and gradually take priority. Is it really the best time to begin training for a big run and aiming for a PB when he's probably going to be sleep-deprived? If he can manage both, fine, but I'd make it clear that you expect the family and home to take precedence over training.